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Episode 119 – Dr. Annu Navani

By thecovertcode|2026-06-26T19:54:06+00:00June 25th, 2026|Author, Get Your Geek On, Podcasts|

The Future of Healthcare: How AI and Regenerative Medicine Are Changing Medicine Forever

On this episode of The Covert Code Podcast, I sat down with Dr. Annu Navani to discuss the future of healthcare and how artificial intelligence, regenerative medicine, longevity science, and personalized care are transforming what healing may look like in the years ahead.

Dr. Navani is the founder and Chief Medical Officer of Le Reve Wellness, Chief Medical Officer at Boomerang Healthcare, a Stanford adjunct faculty member, and the author of the upcoming Forbes Books title Health Recoded: A Physician’s Guide to Intelligent Healthcare.

This conversation was fascinating because it explored a question many patients, doctors, and innovators are asking right now:

What if healthcare could become more predictive, more personalized, and more preventative?

Why Healthcare Needs to Change

One of the biggest themes from our conversation was that healthcare is still largely reactive.

Too often, people wait until disease, degeneration, or chronic pain appears before treatment begins. By that point, the system is already working from behind.

Dr. Navani believes the future of medicine should move earlier in the process. Instead of simply treating symptoms after they appear, emerging technologies may help identify risks years before serious health conditions develop.

This shift from reactive care to proactive care could completely change how patients experience medicine.

The Role of AI in Intelligent Healthcare

Artificial intelligence is already beginning to reshape healthcare.

Dr. Navani shared how AI can help analyze biomarker data, imaging, lifestyle factors, family history, and patient behavior to create more personalized healthcare plans.

The goal is not to replace physicians.

The goal is to give doctors better tools.

AI can help identify patterns, predict risks, and support treatment decisions, but clinical expertise remains essential. Human judgment, patient context, and physician experience still matter deeply.

This aligns with many of the AI conversations we explore on The Covert Code: the most powerful use of AI is not replacing people but helping experts make better decisions.

Personalized Medicine Is the Future

One of the most important takeaways from this episode was the need for personalized medicine.

Dr. Navani explained that every patient is different. Genetics, weight, biology, lifestyle, health history, and risk factors all influence how someone responds to treatment.

Instead of a one-size-fits-all model, healthcare is moving toward more customized care.

That means treatments may increasingly be designed around the individual patient rather than the average patient.

For patients, this could mean better outcomes, fewer unnecessary treatments, and a more precise path toward long-term health.

Regenerative Medicine and the Body’s Ability to Heal

Regenerative medicine was another major focus of the conversation.

Dr. Navani discussed platelet-rich plasma, growth factors, exosomes, stem cells, and other therapies that may help support healing and prevent further degeneration.

In her work with spine, orthopedic, and musculoskeletal care, regenerative medicine is especially important because the goal is not only to treat pain but also to improve function and quality of life.

She described her philosophy simply:

Find it, fix it, and move it.

That means identifying the root problem, addressing it, and helping the patient return to movement and function.

Can Humans Live to 120?

One of the most interesting parts of the episode was our conversation about longevity.

Dr. Navani believes that with current knowledge, many people may be able to live longer and healthier lives, potentially reaching 120 years.

But the goal is not simply extending lifespan.

The goal is extending healthspan.

Living longer only matters if people can remain active, functional, independent, and mentally sharp.

That is why lifestyle still matters. Diet, exercise, sleep, and stress management remain foundational for longevity, even as advanced therapies continue to evolve.

Preventative Medicine Starts at Home

While the conversation included advanced technologies, Dr. Navani also emphasized simple daily choices.

What we eat, how we move, how we sleep, and how we manage stress all affect long-term health.

Many people look for complex solutions, but prevention often begins with basic lifestyle habits.

Clean nutrition, regular movement, quality sleep, and stress reduction remain some of the most powerful tools available.

Technology may help us see the risks earlier, but daily behavior still shapes the outcome.

Pain Management Must Be Multidisciplinary

Dr. Navani also shared important insight into pain management.

Chronic pain is not just a symptom. It can become a disease syndrome that affects every part of a person’s life, including family, work, movement, mood, and independence.

That is why pain management must be multidisciplinary.

Medication may have a role in some cases, but it cannot be the only strategy. Interventional procedures, regenerative therapies, physical therapy, meditation, nutrition, cognitive behavioral therapy, and lifestyle support may all play a role in restoring function.

The ultimate goal is not just reducing pain.

The goal is improving quality of life.

The Challenge of Access

One of the most difficult parts of this conversation was access.

Many emerging therapies are expensive and not always covered by insurance. That means some of the most promising treatments may only be available to people who can afford them out of pocket.

Dr. Navani believes this has to change.

If preventative and regenerative medicine can reduce long-term healthcare costs and improve outcomes, then the system must find better ways to make these therapies accessible.

That may require policy changes, insurance changes, clinical trials, regulatory support, and new models of care.

The Future of Healthcare Is Intelligent

The future of healthcare may look very different from the system many patients experience today.

It may be more predictive.

More personalized.

More preventative.

More integrated.

And more focused on helping people live healthier for longer.

Dr. Navani’s work points toward a future where patients are empowered with better information, physicians are supported by smarter tools, and medicine becomes less about reacting to disease and more about preventing it.

Listen to the Full Episode

To hear the full conversation with Dr. Annu Navani, visit The Covert Code Podcast.

You can also learn more about Dr. Navani at AnnuNavani.com, explore Le Reve Wellness, or connect with her on LinkedIn and Instagram.

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Transcript: The Future of Healthcare — How AI and Regenerative Medicine Are Changing Medicine Forever

Episode: The Covert Code Podcast

Host: Anna Covert

Guest: Dr. Annu Navani

Anna Covert [00:00:04]: Aloha. My name is Anna Covert, and I'm coming to you from my battleship here on the beautiful island of Oahu.

Anna Covert [00:00:12]: This week on The Covert Code Podcast, the topic is the future of healthcare and how artificial intelligence and regenerative medicine are changing medicine forever.

Anna Covert [00:00:26]: My special guest is Dr. Annu Navani, founder and Chief Medical Officer of Le Reve Wellness, Chief Medical Officer at Boomerang Healthcare, Stanford faculty member, and author of the upcoming Forbes Books title Health Recoded: A Physician's Guide to Intelligent Healthcare.

Anna Covert [00:00:51]: Thank you so much for joining me today.

Dr. Annu Navani [00:00:55]: Thank you, Anna. It's wonderful to be here.

The Journey Into Medicine

Anna Covert: I always like to start with the CliffsNotes version. How did you get from where you were to where you are today?

Dr. Navani: My journey into medicine began very early. I've always been fascinated by how the human body works and how we can help people heal. Over the years, I became increasingly interested not only in treating disease but in understanding why disease develops in the first place.

Dr. Navani: That curiosity eventually led me toward pain management, regenerative medicine, longevity, and intelligent healthcare systems.

Why Healthcare Must Change

Anna Covert: One of the things we discussed is that our healthcare system tends to be reactive rather than proactive.

Dr. Navani: Exactly. We often wait until patients become very sick before intervening. By then, disease has frequently progressed significantly. We need to move toward prevention, early detection, and personalized care.

Dr. Navani: The future of medicine is identifying risk factors earlier and helping patients make changes before serious illness develops.

The Role of Artificial Intelligence

Anna Covert: AI is impacting every industry. How do you see it affecting healthcare?

Dr. Navani: AI has enormous potential. It can analyze large amounts of patient data, identify patterns, and support physicians in making better decisions.

Dr. Navani: The goal is not to replace physicians. The goal is to give physicians better tools to help patients.

Dr. Navani: Human judgment, compassion, and clinical experience remain essential.

Personalized Medicine

Dr. Navani: Every patient is unique. Their genetics, lifestyle, environment, and medical history all influence health outcomes.

Dr. Navani: Personalized medicine allows us to tailor treatment plans to each individual rather than relying on generalized approaches.

Anna Covert: That seems like one of the biggest shifts happening right now.

Dr. Navani: Absolutely.

Regenerative Medicine

Anna Covert: Can you explain regenerative medicine?

Dr. Navani: Regenerative medicine focuses on helping the body heal itself. This includes therapies such as platelet-rich plasma, growth factors, and stem-cell-based treatments.

Dr. Navani: Our philosophy is simple: find it, fix it, and move it.

Dr. Navani: We want patients to regain function, improve quality of life, and return to the activities they enjoy.

Can Humans Live to 120?

Anna Covert: One of the most fascinating questions we discussed was longevity.

Dr. Navani: The science of longevity continues to advance. Many researchers believe longer, healthier lives are possible.

Dr. Navani: The goal isn't simply to extend lifespan. The goal is to extend healthspan so people remain active, engaged, and healthy for more years.

Lifestyle Still Matters

Dr. Navani: Technology is important, but lifestyle remains foundational.

Dr. Navani: Nutrition, movement, sleep, stress reduction, and social connection continue to play enormous roles in health outcomes.

Dr. Navani: We cannot overlook the basics.

The Future of Healthcare

Anna Covert: If you look ahead ten years, what does healthcare look like?

Dr. Navani: I believe it becomes more personalized, more preventative, and more intelligent.

Dr. Navani: Patients become more informed. Physicians have better tools. Technology supports decision-making. Healthcare becomes proactive rather than reactive.

Dr. Navani: Ultimately, we help people live healthier lives for longer.

Final Thoughts

Anna Covert: What advice would you give someone listening today?

Dr. Navani: Take ownership of your health. Ask questions. Be proactive. Focus on prevention. The decisions you make every day matter.

Anna Covert: Thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr. Navani: Thank you. It was wonderful speaking with you.

Anna Covert: If you have not yet subscribed, please do so. We continue to bring you industry experts and thought leaders helping you succeed both online and offline.

Anna Covert: I can't wait to see you next week in the pixels. Aloha.

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Why Leaders Must Be More Visible, Vocal, and Vulnerable to Win Consumer Trust

By thecovertcode|2026-06-26T19:47:43+00:00June 25th, 2026|In The Media|

Consumers are more skeptical about corporate messaging than ever before — a trust quotient that’s been trending downward for some time.

Perhaps that shouldn’t be surprising. Poll the American public and you’ll likely find an erosion of trust in numerous areas of society. For decades, Gallup has tracked a deterioration in trust of nearly all institutions, from government to religion to the media to big business.

The Edelman Trust Barometer brings similar discouraging news for people in positions of authority. Business leaders are not exempt, with 68% of Americans saying they worry that business leaders purposely mislead people by saying things they know are false or gross exaggerations.

Clearly, this trend is worrisome for brands and their messaging, and it is one of the reasons today’s entrepreneurs, CEOs, and other business leaders can’t afford to be invisible, remaining hidden away and sending company spokespeople in their stead. People want to know who you are and what you stand for. A decade ago, it still felt appropriate — even admirable — for leaders to keep a lower profile and let the brand itself take the lead. There was even a belief that drawing attention to yourself was ego-driven or self-serving.

That’s not the world we live in anymore. Today, if you’re not willing to lead from the front—visibly, vocally, and vulnerably—people don’t trust you. The leaders who will win in the next decade are those willing to step forward, share their perspective openly, and create real dialogue with their audience.

And once you walk into the limelight, you might not find it all that bad — especially once you grow in confidence as you gain experience in being front and center, rather than in the background.

Your Message and AI

Trust in businesses and business leaders probably hasn’t been helped by artificial intelligence, but AI may have carved out an opportunity for those trying to establish their authority. If nothing else, AI may have forced the hand of many corporate leaders.

How so?

As more content is AI-generated and automated, authenticity becomes premium. The more artificial the landscape feels, the more valuable a human signal becomes. So bottom line, if you’re not shaping your narrative, the algorithm will shape it for you.

One approach to building authority that I’ve used myself is to focus less on the volume of content and more on platforms that build credibility: writing books, podcasting, and long-form conversations with industry leaders. Those formats create deeper trust and attract the right audience organically.

When you build authority first, the business model becomes much more durable — and the opportunities that follow are often bigger than anything you could have planned.

Your Message and Ethical Use of Data

Of course, there are other ways for you and your brand to either gain or lose the trust of consumers — including the ways in which you use consumer data. That data is incredibly valuable, but it can also be a slippery slope if it’s misused.

Too many companies are chasing shortcuts by buying third-party data or aggressively mining first-party data in ways that ultimately damage trust. The modern consumer is already overwhelmed with emails, texts, calls, DMs, and ads. Assuming people will be pleased to hear from you simply because they might be interested in your product is a fantasy. As one person, frustrated with their interaction with a business, posted on LinkedIn recently: “I signed up to try your tool… not to get 16 emails in three days.”

Rather than inundating consumers with information about your brand, the smarter strategy is attraction rather than intrusion. Know who you are as a brand, understand who your audience is, and place your message where they can discover you naturally instead of forcing your way into their inbox. Building your authority in your industry falls neatly into that approach.

Leaders also need to recognize that the old tactics carry real risk today. Over-emailing, mass texting, aggressive cold outreach, and poorly managed call center strategies can backfire quickly, not only damaging your reputation but even affecting the health of your domain and deliverability if (and when) you are flagged for SPAM.

The most sustainable approach is ethical marketing: know yourself, know your audience, and build systems that invite people into your ecosystem rather than chasing them across the internet.

As the leader, make yourself a visible face of the company, someone whose insights and knowledge are shared with the world, whether you are speaking at an event, being interviewed on a podcast, penning an op-ed for a newspaper, or writing a book.

In that way, you can begin to build trust, and given that our world is flooded with automation and noise, trust is the only signal that still converts.

Article from: International Business Times

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Episode 118 – Charlene Rose

By thecovertcode|2026-06-19T03:00:30+00:00June 18th, 2026|Get Your Geek On, Podcasts|

The Human Advantage: Creating Income AI Can’t Replace

As artificial intelligence continues transforming nearly every industry, many people are asking the same question:

What jobs, businesses, and opportunities will still thrive in an AI-powered world?

On this episode of The Covert Code Podcast, I sat down with entrepreneur, choreographer, performer, and Airbnb host Charlene Rose to discuss why authentic human experiences may become even more valuable as technology advances.

Charlene has built multiple businesses around creativity, passion, and personal connection, including her dance company, Living Room to Ballroom, and her themed Airbnb experience, Old Hollywood Lodge.

Following Passion Instead of a Traditional Roadmap

One of the most compelling aspects of Charlene’s entrepreneurial journey is that she never followed a traditional business plan.

She began as a dancer and performer before discovering opportunities that naturally evolved into businesses.

Rather than chasing trends, she focused on what energized her most.

That passion eventually attracted other people who wanted similar experiences, creating the foundation for her dance company.

This philosophy mirrors what many successful entrepreneurs discover over time: business opportunities often emerge when you become deeply committed to something you genuinely love.

How Passion Creates Business Opportunities

According to Charlene, identifying a business opportunity doesn’t always begin with market research.

Sometimes it starts with paying attention.

When she began sharing her passion for dance, people repeatedly expressed interest in learning, performing, and gaining confidence through movement.

Those signals became the foundation for Living Room to Ballroom.

Instead of simply teaching dance, Charlene created an experience that allows women to perform, build friendships, increase confidence, and challenge themselves in new ways.

The lesson is simple:

Pay attention to what people consistently ask you about.

The opportunity may already be sitting in front of you.

The Power of Creating an Experience

The same philosophy guided the creation of Old Hollywood Lodge.

Rather than offering another generic Airbnb rental, Charlene designed an immersive experience inspired by classic Hollywood glamour.

Guests don’t simply rent a room.

They step into a themed environment that feels unique and memorable.

This is an important lesson for business owners.

In crowded markets, products often compete on price.

Experiences compete on emotion.

The more memorable your experience becomes, the more likely customers are to share it and return.

Why AI May Increase Demand for Human Experiences

One of the most fascinating parts of our conversation focused on artificial intelligence.

While many professionals worry about AI replacing jobs, Charlene sees a different future.

She believes people will increasingly seek authentic, real-world experiences as digital content becomes more artificial.

Live performances.

Dance classes.

Community events.

Travel experiences.

Personal interaction.

These are all things AI struggles to replicate.

As technology becomes more powerful, genuine human connection may become even more valuable.

This aligns with many conversations we’ve had on The Covert Code Podcast about the future of work and the importance of developing skills that emphasize communication, creativity, empathy, and community.

Commitment Still Matters

Charlene also shared an insightful observation about generational shifts.

Many younger audiences are interested in experiences but often struggle with long-term commitment.

Dance, performance, and mastery require repetition, practice, and dedication.

While social media can create the illusion of instant success, genuine expertise still requires effort.

The entrepreneurs who succeed will be the ones who remain committed long after the initial excitement fades.

Trusting Your Intuition

Throughout the conversation, one theme appeared repeatedly: intuition.

Charlene believes many of her opportunities emerged because she followed what genuinely excited her rather than what seemed practical on paper.

That doesn’t mean ignoring strategy.

It means allowing passion and intuition to help guide decision-making.

Often the next opportunity reveals itself only after taking action on the current one.

Final Thoughts

The future may belong to those who can combine technology with uniquely human experiences.

AI will continue transforming industries, improving efficiency, and changing how work gets done.

But creativity, connection, performance, storytelling, hospitality, and community remain deeply human pursuits.

Charlene’s journey demonstrates that some of the most resilient businesses are built around things technology cannot easily replace.

Passion.

Experience.

Authenticity.

Connection.

To hear the full conversation with Charlene Rose, visit The Covert Code Podcast.

CONNECT WITH CHARLENE ROSE

Charlene Rose

- Website: https://charlenerose.com

Living Room to Ballroom

Website: https://livingroomtoballroom.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/livingroomtoballroom/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/livingroomtoballroom/

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Transcript: Why Human Experiences Will Thrive in an AI World

Episode: The Covert Code Podcast

Host: Anna Covert

Guest: Charlene Rose

Anna Covert [00:00:04]: Aloha. My name is Anna Covert, and I'm coming to you from my battleship here on the beautiful island of Oahu. This week on The Covert Code Podcast, the topic is why human experiences will thrive in an AI world.

Anna Covert [00:00:21]: My very special guest is Charlene Rose, an entrepreneur, actor, hand model, and choreographer who has built a life and businesses rooted in passion and creativity.

Anna Covert [00:00:32]: She is the founder of Living Room to Ballroom, a professional dance company that helps people step into new challenges and create new opportunities for development. She is also the visionary behind Old Hollywood Lodge, a unique Airbnb location with a very interesting story that we're going to dive into.

Anna Covert [00:00:49]: Thanks so much for being here today.

Charlene Rose [00:00:55]: Thank you for having me. You're beautiful. What did you call it?

Anna Covert [00:00:58]: Battleship. This is my battleship.

Charlene Rose [00:01:00]: I love it. Thank you for having me.

Anna Covert [00:01:03]: To get us started, I like to ask all of our guests for the CliffsNotes version. You're very unique and different than some other guests, which is exciting. How did you get from where you were to where you are now as this interesting entrepreneur?

Charlene Rose [00:01:16]: I started as a dancer. I went to college for dance and musical theater. How I became an entrepreneur and businessperson kind of just happened, not in a traditional way. I didn't follow a specific roadmap. It was more about following my intuition and my passion, what ignites me.

Charlene Rose [00:01:44]: Step by step along the way, the roadmap presented itself. I came to LA, was competing, and then I started my dance company because it was something I was passionate about. People latched onto it and said, “I want to do that too.” I saw a need and developed a business out of it.

Charlene Rose [00:02:14]: The Airbnb was a separate thing that came randomly because I wanted to buy a property, but it wasn't right for me to live in at the time. So I decided to make it an investment and use my creativity to make it something special and different.

Anna Covert [00:02:43]: Tell us more about your dance company. It's not traditional ballroom dance. What exactly is it, and what kind of audience are you attracting?

Charlene Rose [00:02:51]: It has gone through different phases, but it was mainly rooted in Latin dance. I'm a salsa dancer. First, I did partnering, but nowadays I'm just teaching women.

Charlene Rose [00:03:10]: During the pandemic, it was really difficult to do partner dancing because people had to stay six feet apart. I had a bachata partnering series that started right as everything shut down, and we continued it, but instead of live performances, we created videos.

Charlene Rose [00:03:45]: Now I teach women choreography, set up shows for them, pick costumes, and because of the pandemic, we also do professional videos. Within one series, they get to perform live and do a video shoot.

Charlene Rose [00:04:10]: At the same time, they're building camaraderie. Some of my team members become best friends for years. They're gaining confidence and learning skills. The two styles I do right now are salsa and burlesque.

Anna Covert [00:04:41]: So it's not just for people to learn to dance. It's more like they get a professional experience.

Charlene Rose [00:04:48]: It's not professional in the sense that my students are trying to become professionals. Most of my students are ages 40 to 70. These are women with careers who maybe danced when they were younger, maybe never danced, or always wanted to dance.

Charlene Rose [00:05:15]: I'm giving them the experience of having a professional opportunity to dance and be on stage. Some of my students have even gone on to get paid jobs from the experience.

Anna Covert [00:05:36]: How are you marketing your business?

Charlene Rose [00:05:38]: I market on social media, and a lot of my business is word of mouth. This is my 17th year, and many of my students have been with me for a very long time. Some have been with me at least ten years. They keep spreading the word, and from social media I get people coming in. It's a special thing that I offer.

Anna Covert [00:06:19]: For people listening who are trying to figure out how to use their passion to create business opportunities, what recommendations do you have on identifying a business opportunity linked to your passion?

Charlene Rose [00:06:32]: From my experience, it presented itself. I had a passion, and because I was doing my passion, people latched onto it. If you're putting yourself out there around what you're passionate about, people will see it and you'll find your people.

Charlene Rose [00:07:05]: Look at what people are saying. For me, people said, “I want to look like that. I want to dance like that. I want to feel like that.” That's what worked for me with dance instruction.

Charlene Rose [00:07:30]: With my Airbnb, I looked to see what was out there and what was standing out. That helped me choose something different with an aesthetic people wanted.

Anna Covert [00:08:01]: What makes it different?

Charlene Rose [00:08:03]: Mine has an Old Hollywood theme. I use vintage decor, and throughout the house there are images of old Hollywood stars. You feel like you're going back in time.

Charlene Rose [00:08:24]: People want an experience. There are so many Airbnbs that look the same. The ones doing well and standing out had something different. It made it more of an experience. It's exciting to go to this place. You're not just going to an Airbnb.

Anna Covert [00:09:42]: How have the fires in Hollywood affected your business?

Charlene Rose [00:09:44]: It didn't really affect my business. My clients weren't in that area. I'm in West LA, and the places most affected were the Palisades and Altadena. LA is very big and spread out.

Charlene Rose [00:10:40]: It was crazy during that time. I was at my friend's place trying to get things out of her apartment because the fire kept moving. It was very smoky, to the point where I almost left town. But as far as actual damage, it was in specific areas.

Anna Covert [00:11:28]: Your Airbnb wasn't impacted?

Charlene Rose [00:11:34]: No. If anything, I got people from the fires who wanted to get away.

Anna Covert [00:11:38]: How do you think AI is going to impact the industries you're in?

Charlene Rose [00:11:44]: I feel lucky because I don't think it will really impact me negatively. In fact, I feel like my businesses will thrive because of AI. People are going to want more in-person experiences. They're going to get tired of seeing AI images and AI videos and not knowing what's real.

Charlene Rose [00:12:15]: Dance fills that need for in-person connection. I'm here right with you. Even the touch aspect of dancing creates connection.

Anna Covert [00:12:37]: Not in your dance right now?

Charlene Rose [00:12:38]: Not in my specific dance right now, but I'm still involved in that world and could get back into partnering. Even with live performances, which I also provide, and immersive events with performances and live music, every part of it is in person.

Anna Covert [00:13:18]: People are starved for authenticity and realism, and it's only getting more important.

Charlene Rose [00:14:28]: People are going to get tired of the boxed AI sound. They're going to want live experiences. In that aspect, I feel like I'm in a good place as far as AI goes. The Airbnb is also a place you go to.

Anna Covert [00:14:52]: Are algorithms being affected? Online search is being impacted directly by AI. Are you advertising through Airbnb?

Charlene Rose [00:15:17]: Not that I know of. I'm consistently booked, so whatever is happening with the algorithm or AI is still working for me.

Charlene Rose [00:15:31]: I'm on Airbnb, Booking.com, and Vrbo. I'm probably 80 to 90 percent booked. I want to start using ads because I have something unique and feel like I could price it at a higher level.

Anna Covert [00:16:21]: I probably wouldn't do Facebook ads because of all the fraud.

Charlene Rose [00:16:24]: I didn't know that.

Anna Covert [00:16:37]: You're unique because people are actively going somewhere. They have dates, they want to book something. They're very low in the purchase funnel. Facebook is not usually where they're looking for a place to stay.

Anna Covert [00:17:10]: You could get boosting through the platforms you're already on, get featured, increase the price, and test that. That is typically the better way to go.

Charlene Rose [00:17:22]: I think that's what I'll do.

Anna Covert [00:17:22]: There are AI changes coming to these algorithms. Airlines already recognize behavior and charge differently based on user patterns, location, and time of day. The same types of things can apply in travel and lodging.

Anna Covert [00:18:43]: You're in a really good spot. Anything with a keyboard is in the first wave of AI impact. Eventually, robots may do more physical tasks, but dance instruction is probably safe for a while.

Charlene Rose [00:19:18]: I think that's pretty safe.

Anna Covert [00:19:21]: People should think about following their passion while protecting themselves. Your current customers for your dance school have been around a long time, but if you target younger people, there may be interesting opportunities.

Charlene Rose [00:20:03]: With the younger generation, I would have to change things around. From what I've seen, they don't want to commit to anything, and with dance you have to commit.

Charlene Rose [00:20:31]: People may see an amazing dancer and think they want to do that, but they don't realize the hours of repetition, training, blood, sweat, and tears that go into it.

Anna Covert [00:20:59]: Or they take a picture of themselves and have AI do it for them.

Charlene Rose [00:21:01]: Exactly. There are AI videos where you can put your face on somebody else's body doing tricks. People are going to get tired of it. For the younger generation, I might do something more free-flowing, like dancing without the same level of commitment.

Anna Covert [00:21:37]: My dad was known as the cha-cha king. My parents did dance lessons together, and I loved dancing with my dad because he was a legit lead.

Anna Covert [00:22:10]: I think that's why line dancing has become popular again. You can dance by yourself, but there's coordination, difficulty, and everyone is together.

Charlene Rose [00:22:34]: That's a great thing because it doesn't require a lot of skill, but it's still fun. There's a market. You just have to figure it out and find the need.

Charlene Rose [00:23:48]: I have a very specific niche. I know exactly the type of people who are going to be into what I provide, and I know they'll be loyal once they join. I just have to get them into the class.

Anna Covert [00:24:18]: When we think about what is less affected by AI, it's things with your hands and feet, human things, crafts, performance, touch, love, and service.

Anna Covert [00:25:52]: People are going to be drawn toward real human engagement. That's dancing, collaborating, singing, performing, creativity, and what it means to be human.

Charlene Rose [00:26:14]: My brother does coding and is a little nervous, but from his experience AI still messes up, and he has to be hands-on with it.

Anna Covert [00:26:44]: That's called AI hallucination, where it gets off on a tangent. The more input you give it, the better it gets. What's missing right now is the human interface and communication. People need to know how to tell AI what they want.

Charlene Rose [00:27:16]: I use AI a lot with writing for my website and captions. It's crazy how smart it is. It hasn't been around in the general public for that long, and it's advancing quickly. It's kind of scary.

Charlene Rose [00:27:52]: If someone's business is potentially affected by AI, they should adjust so there is some kind of hands-on, person-to-person element.

Anna Covert [00:28:07]: It goes back to passion. If you're listening and worried about AI, think about what makes you happy. Maybe you love helping people, cooking, caregiving, crafts, or something else. You can make a business out of that.

Charlene Rose [00:29:21]: I believe in that 100 percent. Mindset is a big part of it. Making your own business is not a sure thing, but when you're aligned and go for it, things start to fall into place in wild ways.

Charlene Rose [00:30:01]: Some people are afraid, so they dip their foot in, but it doesn't work that way. You have to be 100 percent in it. With my Airbnb, I didn't know what I was doing. It was my first house purchase, but I did research and wasn't going into it blindly.

Charlene Rose [00:31:10]: I was renovating the house and doing heavy labor. At the same time, I booked a Beachbody program as a workout person in the video, which gave me extra money and helped me get strong. It came at the perfect time. That's an example of synchronicity.

Anna Covert [00:32:15]: Of all times, this is one of the easiest times to start your own business. Before, you needed an agency to create logos, websites, marketing plans, business plans, and more. Now you can use tools to create a lot of those things yourself and start testing ideas.

Charlene Rose [00:33:04]: Absolutely.

Anna Covert [00:33:04]: What's next for you? Are you going to expand your business or get another house?

Charlene Rose [00:33:15]: In the next five years, I think I would like to get another Airbnb. I enjoy hosting. I love getting reviews saying guests had a fabulous stay, loved the decor, and found it serene.

Charlene Rose [00:33:45]: Sometimes when you're on a path, other things come up. I didn't know I was an interior designer, but I had to be to make my place stand out. Now friends have asked me to do interior design for their places, so that could be something I pursue.

Charlene Rose [00:34:20]: Right now I have my Airbnb, my dance company, and my dad's construction business. I stay open to what feels like it ignites me.

Anna Covert [00:34:35]: Bashar has a formula that says if your higher self is guiding you, you act on your passion first. When that passion shifts, you follow the next passion, and synchronicities line up.

Charlene Rose [00:35:15]: Just follow what ignites you. Follow what feeds your soul and makes you excited. Whatever you're doing will take effort, but it becomes easier if you listen to that guidance.

Anna Covert [00:36:05]: How can people get ahold of you?

Charlene Rose [00:36:08]: I'm on Instagram and Facebook as Charlene Rose. My Airbnb is Old Hollywood Lodge, also on Instagram and Facebook. My dance instruction company is Living Room to Ballroom.

Anna Covert [00:36:23]: Great. We'll keep all those links in the feed and channel. Thank you so much for joining me today. Please tune in next week as I interview another industry expert on topics to help you succeed on and offline. If you have not yet subscribed, please subscribe to the channel. We're approaching 170,000 subscribers, and that is because of you and your aloha. I can't wait to see you next week in the pixels. Aloha.

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Episode 117 – Dave Gulas

By thecovertcode|2026-06-09T20:49:10+00:00June 11th, 2026|Get Your Geek On, Podcasts|

On this episode of The Covert Code Podcast, I sat down with Dave Gulas, entrepreneur, podcast host, and co-founder of EZDC 3PL, to discuss one of the biggest shifts happening in business today: the rise of founder-led selling.

For years, companies could rely on logos, corporate messaging, and brand recognition to attract customers. Today, that strategy is becoming less effective. Customers want to know who they’re buying from. They want transparency, authenticity, and a human connection.

Dave believes that founders can no longer hide behind their company name, and after our conversation, it’s difficult to disagree.

People Buy From People

One of the most important themes from our conversation was that people do business with people.

Customers want to understand the person behind the business. They want to know your values, your story, and why you started the company in the first place. Whether you’re selling software, professional services, e-commerce products, or logistics solutions, trust is still the foundation of every buying decision.

As someone who has spent more than two decades helping companies grow through digital marketing at Covert Communication, I’ve watched this trend accelerate significantly over the last few years. The companies seeing the greatest engagement are often the ones where the founder is visible and actively communicating with their audience.

People connect with people. They rarely connect with logos.

Why Personal Branding Matters More Than Ever

Dave shared how he entered the logistics industry and quickly realized that simply having a website and a service offering wasn’t enough. To compete with larger organizations, he needed to become visible.

That meant creating content. Attending trade shows. Launching a podcast. Sharing his experiences publicly. Most importantly, it meant becoming comfortable sharing his experiences publicly.

That journey eventually led to the creation of the Beyond Fulfillment Podcast, where Dave interviews entrepreneurs and explores the realities of building businesses beyond the highlight reels often portrayed on social media.

The result wasn’t overnight success. It was something more valuable: credibility.

This aligns closely with many of the authority-building concepts I’ve written about on AnnaCovert.com, where I’ve long advocated for founders to become active participants in their marketing rather than outsourcing their entire public presence.

The Fear of Visibility

One of the most significant barriers preventing founders from building their personal brand is fear.

Fear of criticism.

Fear of judgment.

Fear of saying the wrong thing.

Fear of not being perfect is another common concern.

Dave offered an interesting perspective on this issue. After creating content consistently, he realized something important: most people aren’t paying nearly as much attention as we think they are.

In fact, the bigger challenge isn’t criticism.

The bigger challenge is that people notice you at all.

In today’s crowded digital landscape, visibility requires consistency. Founders who wait until they feel comfortable often wait forever.

The better strategy is simple: start.

AI Is Making Authenticity More Valuable

One of the most fascinating parts of our conversation centered around artificial intelligence.

AI is changing everything from content creation to customer service, logistics, sales, and marketing. As businesses increasingly leverage AI-generated content, something remarkable is happening.

Authenticity is becoming more valuable.

People can sense lived experience.

They can tell when someone is speaking from real-world knowledge or simply repeating generic information.

That doesn’t mean founders should avoid AI. Quite the opposite.

AI can help organize ideas, generate outlines, summarize information, and improve efficiency. We discuss AI regularly on The Covert Code because it has become one of the most transformative business tools of our generation.

But AI works best when paired with genuine human insight.

Your story is still yours.

Your perspective still matters.

Your experiences still create differentiation.

Building Authority Starts With Small Steps

Many entrepreneurs assume they need to become influencers to build authority.

That’s simply not true.

Dave and I discussed several practical ways founders can begin establishing their personal brand immediately.

Secure your personal domain name.
Invest in professional headshots.
Update your LinkedIn profile.
Create consistency across social platforms.
Share lessons from your experience.
Participate in podcasts and interviews.
Develop a perspective.

Authority is rarely built through a single viral post.

It is built through repetition, consistency, and visibility over time.

Many of the strategies discussed in my book, The Covert Code: Mastering the Art of Digital Marketing, follow this same principle. Sustainable growth comes from consistently showing up and creating trust.

The Future Belongs to Visible Leaders

The era of faceless brands is fading.

As consumers become increasingly skeptical of corporate messaging and AI-generated content floods the internet, founders have an opportunity to differentiate themselves through authenticity.

The businesses that thrive over the next decade will likely be led by individuals who are willing to share their expertise, communicate their values, and build relationships directly with their audience.

Founder-led selling isn’t simply a marketing tactic.

It’s becoming a competitive advantage.

And for many entrepreneurs, it may become the most valuable asset they own.

Listen to the Full Episode

To hear my complete conversation with Dave Gulas about founder-led selling, personal branding, podcasting, AI, and building authority in today’s marketplace, listen to the full episode of The Covert Code Podcast.

You can also learn more about Dave and his work at DaveGulas.com and connect with him on LinkedIn.

Watch the full episode of The Covert Code Podcast featuring Lou Chatta and learn more about the future of AI-powered travel.

And if you’re interested in conversations around AI, authority, innovation, leadership, and the future of digital transformation, explore more episodes and articles at:

📖 GET THE BOOK: The Covert Code – Mastering the Art of Digital Marketing
Amazon: https://rb.gy/wrht8
Barnes & Noble: https://rb.gy/vwev0a
Target: https://rb.gy/jhpxri

ANNA’S WEBSITES:
The Covert Code: https://thecovertcode.com/
Anna Covert: https://annacovert.com/
Covert Communication: https://covertcommunication.com/
Reactium: https://reactium.io/

⚠️ Affiliate Disclosure: Some links included may be affiliate links, which means we may earn a commission if you choose to make a purchase through them at no additional cost to you.

Transcript: Founder-Led Selling and Why Faceless Brands Are Losing

Episode: The Covert Code Podcast

Host: Anna Covert

Guest: Dave Gulas

Anna Covert [00:00:04]: Aloha. My name is Anna Covert, and I'm coming to you from my battleship here on the beautiful island of Oahu. This week on The Covert Code, the topic is founder-led selling and why faceless brands are losing.

Anna Covert [00:00:18]: My very special guest is Dave Gulas. He's an entrepreneur, podcast host, and co-founder of EZDC 3PL. With over 20 years of experience in sales and marketing leadership, Dave has firsthand experience and really believes that it's no longer possible for someone to hide behind their company name.

Anna Covert [00:00:38]: Personal brand is of utmost importance, and today we're diving into how you can lead from the front with founder-led selling. Thanks so much for being here today, Dave.

Dave Gulas [00:00:51]: Hey Anna, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Anna Covert [00:00:55]: To get us started, can you give us the CliffsNotes version of the Dave story? How did you get from where you were to where you are, and tell us more about EZDC 3PL?

Dave Gulas [00:01:04]: Absolutely. I'm a lifelong sales guy. I've been in sales my entire adult life. Most of that time was in the medical and pharmaceutical space. In 2022, a good friend of mine and I co-founded EZDC 3PL because we saw a gap in the market where emerging ecommerce brands were being left out by the big-box players in the 3PL space.

Dave Gulas [00:01:38]: We had the means available to start a 3PL, so we jumped in and did it with a lot of personal experience and high-touch customer service from our days in pharma. We thought it would be a great fit for logistics.

Dave Gulas [00:01:55]: We've been growing that business for almost four years. We have two locations in Kentucky and are rapidly growing. I also host the Beyond Fulfillment Podcast. I've been doing that almost three years, and it's really about the entrepreneurial journey, not the Instagram highlight reel, but the raw reality of what it's like to be an entrepreneur.

Anna Covert [00:02:09]: It is a wild road. Can you tell us what 3PL is?

Dave Gulas [00:02:15]: It stands for third-party logistics. If you have an ecommerce brand and you're growing and scaling, most start with humble beginnings out of their home or maybe a small office. As they grow, they reach a graduation point where they need to outsource logistics.

Dave Gulas [00:02:34]: Instead of renting a warehouse, managing staff, paying for expensive software, and negotiating carrier contracts, they outsource to a company that specializes in logistics. That lets them leverage economies of scale and focus on their zone of genius so they can continue to grow.

Anna Covert [00:02:56]: This is so common. We actually have a client coming over in a couple hours who started a pancake company, and we were just talking about this. At what point does he stop fulfilling orders himself? This is a real need for entrepreneurs.

Dave Gulas [00:03:11]: Absolutely. You'll know when fulfillment becomes such a headache and so overwhelming that it's inhibiting growth and the other business development activities a founder should be doing. If they're running back and forth shipping packages or spending too much time in the warehouse, that's typically when it's time to outsource.

Anna Covert [00:03:38]: Absolutely. We have another client who could have grown much faster had they had a company like yours. Whenever she goes on vacation or gets distracted with in-store samplings, orders stack up and people cancel. It's so much easier to keep a customer than get a new customer, so it's critical that orders are sent out fast and without issues.

Dave Gulas [00:04:22]: One hundred percent. We're in the age of Amazon where everyone wants everything right now. You want the order confirmed fast, flowing from Shopify to the fulfillment center, and shipped right away. The customer expects that automatically. Anything less can create a serious problem in terms of keeping that customer.

Anna Covert [00:04:49]: Let's jump deeper into the idea of personal brand and founder-led sales. Tell me about your vision behind that.

Dave Gulas [00:05:05]: It started for me when I got into logistics. Previously, in pharmaceuticals, it was traditional B2B sales. In logistics, it's wide open and you never know where customers will come from. It's hard to call people and ask if they're looking to move warehouses. You need to be visible and be found when people have that need.

Dave Gulas [00:05:42]: It hit me when I went to my first industry trade show and saw how big the other companies were, what they were doing, and how they were marketing. I wasn't used to content creation, so I had to learn quickly. I was uncomfortable and scared at first, but I knew I had to do it.

Dave Gulas [00:06:17]: As I kept doing it, I became more comfortable. Eventually, I started a podcast and interviewed other entrepreneurs. I expanded my content, did guest interviews, and through that, people got to know me. It attracted attention and has been instrumental for business growth.

Dave Gulas [00:06:45]: I think it's essential for a founder growing their brand to be visible because people do business with people. They want to know who you are. In the age of social media and instant access, you can no longer hide behind the company name.

Anna Covert [00:07:11]: Absolutely. Even five or six years ago, it might have seemed endearing for someone to say they wanted the team to shine and didn't want to be the face. But that is not the way you're going to help the team. You must lead internally and externally. If you're not comfortable now, you need to become comfortable.

Dave Gulas [00:08:18]: One thing you mentioned is people being scared and the spotlight effect. We think everyone is looking at us and wondering what they'll think. What I realized when I started creating content is how hard it is to get attention. Everyone is wrapped up in themselves, their own problems, and their own businesses.

Anna Covert [00:09:05]: It may not be perfect, but that's authentic. With AI and everything happening, people are craving authentic realness.

Dave Gulas [00:09:14]: Yes. I have this podcast, and I've been press credentialed at numerous trade shows. I walk the floor doing man-on-the-street interviews. At one show, ABC Kids Expo in Vegas, it was all these kids and baby brands. Most of the people I interviewed were mompreneurs who saw a problem and started a business.

Dave Gulas [00:09:55]: It was almost universal. They had this idea in their head and turned it into a tangible product or business. They kept going because they believed in their vision. Entrepreneurs face all kinds of challenges, but the ones that succeed are the ones who don't give up.

Anna Covert [00:10:54]: There is so much noise out there. In digital marketing, the stats are incredible around how many ads we're exposed to every day. You have to stand out, and you have to say it more than once. People do not remember anything, and you have to keep reminding them why to pick you.

Dave Gulas [00:11:31]: One hundred percent. People ask, “What do I say?” Be you. Say what's true to you. Say what your values are and what your unique proposition is as a business. When you communicate that consistently, the right people will be attracted to it.

Anna Covert [00:12:02]: What do you think are some misconceptions or reluctances about founders promoting themselves?

Dave Gulas [00:12:09]: I'm shocked when I go to a founder at a show and ask if they want to do an interview, a free chance to promote their business, and they say no. I think, “It's your business. How do you not want to tell people about it?”

Dave Gulas [00:12:40]: People worry they'll look stupid, or wonder what people will think. I also see people say they're not good at sales and will outsource that. But as the founder, it's your baby. Who will communicate your vision better than you? No one. It's part of the job.

Anna Covert [00:13:13]: Why are you in this? What do you do better than others? What core value proposition are you bringing? You wouldn't have gotten into this business if you didn't believe you could do something others aren't fulfilling.

Dave Gulas [00:13:25]: One hundred percent.

Anna Covert [00:13:26]: With tools like AI, if you are uncomfortable, you can ask ChatGPT to ask you questions and train you in your own sales dialogue. You can say, “I'm going to be on this podcast, ask me sample questions,” and it will help you prepare.

Dave Gulas [00:14:09]: As much as I've done with AI, I've never done that. I'm going to try that for the next podcast I'm on.

Anna Covert [00:14:17]: Your podcast is becoming a top-ranked show. What do you think people are most drawn to?

Dave Gulas [00:14:29]: I started it because I was having valuable conversations with entrepreneurs, and that was the most important way I learned as a young founder. I thought if I put it in a podcast, the audience benefits, the guest gets exposure, and it helps me. It's a true win-win.

Dave Gulas [00:15:05]: The feedback I get is that people love hearing the real story. When you dive into a founder's journey, what really happened and how they overcame things, it resonates. Some of the stories are incredible. The people kept going, stayed true to their vision, and made it to the other side.

Anna Covert [00:15:58]: With AI being so disruptive, that kind of content feels even more important because AI is impacting everything. How do you think AI will impact logistics?

Dave Gulas [00:16:30]: We use it to optimize different things. Our software provider uses it to optimize routes through the warehouse with AI picking. We're also using it with internal development to build systems and tools that help us serve customers better.

Dave Gulas [00:17:03]: When we onboard a new customer, I can dump all my conversations and notes into AI, and it creates an onboarding document in seconds for my teams. There are all kinds of ways to use it.

Dave Gulas [00:17:25]: I'm a big believer in the human in the loop. Regardless of how good AI is, the supercomputer in your skull is still unmatched if you use it properly. We need intelligent humans using these tools to create the best possible outcomes.

Anna Covert [00:17:53]: I agree. AI is not right the first or second time, or even the third. For me, it's an opportunity to free up time to have more conversations, be more creative, and spend more time with clients while AI does some of the heavy lifting.

Dave Gulas [00:18:48]: One hundred percent.

Anna Covert [00:18:51]: What recommendations do you have for a founder listening right now who wants to break out of their comfort zone and establish a personal brand?

Dave Gulas [00:19:06]: Not to sound cliche, but just do it. Start wherever you are. I'm a big believer in messy, imperfect action. Get out of inertia, create momentum, stay in motion, and learn as you go.

Dave Gulas [00:19:30]: If it feels daunting or you don't know where to start, hire help. That's what I did. I knew I needed to do it, but I didn't know where to start. I hired a team to help me find my voice and push me.

Dave Gulas [00:20:05]: Anything that happens in your life can potentially become content. You have to be comfortable doing it, and the only way to get comfortable is to do it.

Anna Covert [00:21:02]: I agree. One of the first things people should do is see if they can buy their domain name. Claim it even if you're not using it today. Authorship is a great way to increase personal branding. Podcasting, being on podcasts, creating a podcast, and even a really great headshot matter.

Anna Covert [00:21:42]: Update your social profiles: LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, whatever you're using. Make sure you have a vanity name if available. Everything should be consistent. That's a great place to begin cross-domain authority building.

Dave Gulas [00:22:11]: One hundred percent. Put a picture of you now. Make sure your profiles are consistent. On LinkedIn, make sure the company you list, especially if it's your own, is a verified company page with a logo. Check your profile, title, and positioning.

Anna Covert [00:23:37]: You can be successful.

Dave Gulas [00:23:38]: Love that.

Anna Covert [00:23:40]: What's next for Dave in 2026?

Dave Gulas [00:23:47]: We're in the middle of a busy sales season in the 3PL world, continually onboarding new clients. We've expanded our space, and I have more trade shows booked. I love to travel and meet more people. The podcast continues to grow, and I have more guest spots booked.

Anna Covert [00:24:41]: Thanks so much for being here. How can people get ahold of you and find your podcast?

Dave Gulas [00:24:45]: My podcast is Beyond Fulfillment, and it's on YouTube and everywhere podcasts are heard. You can find me at DaveGulas.com. For ecommerce 3PL services, go to EZDC3PL.com. LinkedIn is my main social platform, so reach out there.

Anna Covert [00:25:12]: Awesome, and we'll have all those links in the channel. Thanks so much for joining us today. If you have not yet subscribed, please do so. We're approaching 200,000 subscribers, and that is because of you and your aloha.

Anna Covert [00:25:30]: Please subscribe and continue to share this content with your friends and family so I can get more great guests like Dave to share their wisdom. I cannot wait to see you next week in the pixels. Aloha!

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Episode 116 – Rob Aquino

By thecovertcode|2026-06-09T21:24:41+00:00June 4th, 2026|Author, Get Your Geek On, Podcasts|

Why Small Businesses Hit Growth Ceilings and How to Break Through Them

On this episode of The Covert Code Podcast, I sat down with Rob Aquino, CEO of JBS Corp and author of The Small Business Money Game: Hidden Strategies That Turn Survival into Scale, to discuss one of the greatest challenges entrepreneurs face: growth ceilings.

Rob’s perspective is unique because he has spent years working with thousands of entrepreneurs while analyzing their financial statements, tax returns, cash flow challenges, and scaling decisions. Through that experience, he developed what he calls the Breakpoint Framework, a roadmap that explains why businesses plateau and what founders must do to continue growing.

The Entrepreneurial Paradox

One of the most insightful moments of the conversation centered around what Rob calls the entrepreneurial paradox.

To reach the next level, you need more resources. But to get those resources, you often need to already be operating at the next level.

This chicken-and-egg problem is something every entrepreneur eventually encounters. Whether it’s hiring a new employee, investing in technology, expanding marketing efforts, or opening a new location, growth almost always requires taking calculated risks before the outcome is guaranteed.

As discussed throughout many leadership conversations on The Covert Code, successful founders learn how to become resourceful before they become resource-rich.

Why Businesses Stop Growing

According to Rob, many entrepreneurs reach a point where their skills become the bottleneck.

Initially, the founder is the salesperson. Then they become the operator. Then the recruiter. Then the leader.

Each stage requires an entirely different set of skills.

The challenge is that most entrepreneurs become comfortable performing the role that initially made them successful. They struggle to let go of those responsibilities and evolve into the next version of themselves.

This aligns closely with concepts I’ve discussed on AnnaCovert.com regarding leadership evolution and the importance of continuous adaptation in business.

The Seven Business Breakpoints

Rob’s Breakpoint Framework identifies seven distinct growth stages that businesses typically encounter on the path toward $25 million in revenue.

Each breakpoint requires the entrepreneur to adopt a new identity and develop new competencies.

For example:

The Founder
The Builder
The Recruiter
The Operator
The Executive
The CEO
The Shareholder

Many businesses never move beyond the hiring stage because founders struggle to recruit, delegate, and trust others with critical responsibilities.

That realization often becomes the difference between building a lifestyle business and building a scalable company.

What Monopoly Can Teach Entrepreneurs

One of the most entertaining parts of the episode involved Rob’s fascination with Monopoly.

Rob shared how his upcoming book uses Monopoly as a framework for understanding financial strategy, capital allocation, negotiation, and wealth creation.

What many people don’t realize is that Monopoly was originally designed as a cautionary lesson about concentrated wealth. Over time, however, players discovered that mastering the game’s mechanics could reveal powerful insights about investing, ownership, and long-term strategy.

The discussion became a fascinating exploration of how games can shape our understanding of money and risk.

The Psychology of Money

Another major theme was how our childhood experiences shape our relationship with money.

Rob explained that many financial behaviors develop between the ages of five and twelve. Whether someone grows up with a scarcity mindset or an abundance mindset often influences how they approach risk, investing, entrepreneurship, and growth later in life.

This phenomenon is one reason why two business owners with identical opportunities can produce dramatically different results.

Their financial beliefs may be entirely different.

AI and the Future of Small Business

Naturally, the conversation turned to artificial intelligence.

Rob believes AI will lower barriers to entry and allow smaller companies to compete more effectively with larger organizations. At the same time, he sees a growing demand for authentic human relationships.

While AI can automate tasks and increase efficiency, entrepreneurs who understand trust, communication, and relationship-building may become even more valuable.

That perspective mirrors many of the AI discussions featured on The Covert Code Podcast, where innovation and human connection are increasingly intersecting.

Lessons from COVID

One of the defining moments in Rob’s career came during COVID.

As businesses struggled to survive, many owners discovered they lacked the financial reporting and bookkeeping systems needed to qualify for government relief programs.

That experience ultimately led Rob to pivot his career and help build solutions that supported entrepreneurs during one of the most challenging periods in recent history.

The lesson was simple but powerful:

Financial visibility matters.

Business owners who understand their numbers make better decisions.

The Small Business Money Game

At its core, Rob’s upcoming book is about helping entrepreneurs understand the language of money.

Too many founders focus exclusively on sales while ignoring financial literacy. But understanding cash flow, banking relationships, capital allocation, profitability, and strategic planning is often what separates businesses that survive from those that scale.

The goal isn’t simply to make more money.

The goal is to understand how money works so you can make better decisions with it.

To hear Rob Aquino’s complete insights on entrepreneurship, financial strategy, growth ceilings, AI, and the Breakpoint Framework, watch the full episode of The Covert Code Podcast.

And if you’re interested in conversations around AI, authority, innovation, leadership, and the future of digital transformation, explore more episodes and articles at:

📖 GET THE BOOK: The Covert Code – Mastering the Art of Digital Marketing
Amazon: https://rb.gy/wrht8
Barnes & Noble: https://rb.gy/vwev0a
Target: https://rb.gy/jhpxri

ANNA’S WEBSITES:
The Covert Code: https://thecovertcode.com/
Anna Covert: https://annacovert.com/
Covert Communication: https://covertcommunication.com/
Reactium: https://reactium.io/

⚠️ Affiliate Disclosure: Some links included may be affiliate links, which means we may earn a commission if you choose to make a purchase through them at no additional cost to you.

Transcript: Why Small Businesses Hit Growth Ceilings and How to Break Through Them

Episode: The Covert Code Podcast

Host: Anna Covert

Guest: Rob Aquino

Anna Covert [00:00:03]: Aloha. My name is Anna Covert, and I’m coming to you from my battleship here on the beautiful island of Oahu.

Anna Covert [00:01:02]: This week on The Covert Code, the topic is why small businesses hit growth ceilings and how to break through them. My very special guest is Robinson “Rob” Aquino, CEO of JBS Corp and Entrepreneur Books, author of The Small Business Money Game: Hidden Strategies That Turn Survival into Scale, which is hitting shelves on June 30, 2026.

Anna Covert [00:01:36]: Rob comes from a deep background in all things finance. He’s been a CFO, financial advisor, wealth strategy management consultant, and founder, so he really understands why small businesses hit growth ceilings.

Anna Covert [00:01:50]: In his upcoming book, he shares the Breakpoint Framework, which provides real-world examples and understanding for entrepreneurs to better understand their numbers, overcome limits, and scale with intention. Thanks so much for being here today.

Rob Aquino [00:02:06]: Thank you, Anna, for having me. I’m excited to talk.

Anna Covert [00:02:09]: To kick us off, we like to begin our story with the little Rob CliffsNotes version of how you got from where you were to where you are right now.

Rob Aquino [00:02:18]: I like to say I grew up in small businesses. Both my parents were entrepreneurs. All of my aunts and uncles growing up were entrepreneurs, and we primarily had bodegas. We grew up in New York as Dominican-American immigrants, and the bodega was the place you went for everything: coffee, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and household goods.

Rob Aquino [00:02:58]: My mom raised us primarily by herself, and she was operating businesses. That meant no clocking in and out, no nine-to-five. Half my childhood was inside a business in a bodega.

Rob Aquino [00:03:18]: I worked inside JBS while I was in high school at my stepfather and brother’s accounting firm. I decided to study accounting because it was what I knew. I studied finance and accounting, went into wealth management with Northwestern Mutual, learned how to build a business, and naturally worked with entrepreneurs as my ideal client profile.

Rob Aquino [00:03:42]: I did a lot of estate planning, retirement planning, and M&A activity, helping entrepreneurs whose whole net worth was their business figure out how to liquidate effectively and go into retirement. My brother had been recruiting me for many years. COVID hit, and that changed everything for us. I’ve been here for about six years now, really scaling the firm.

Anna Covert [00:04:01]: You’ve done some incredible scale. I was reading your bio. Was it 500% growth? How did you get there?

Rob Aquino [00:04:08]: We’ve 5X’d since I’ve been working with my brother. A few ways we got there. I think this is a common misconception in scale: you don’t get to growth by adding. You get to growth by subtracting.

Rob Aquino [00:04:25]: When I came to JBS, we had about 15 services. We did tax prep during tax season, and off season we did almost anything you could do with an administrative team and air conditioning in the summer. Translation services, audit cases, sales tax, payroll services, and at one point we were a travel agency.

Rob Aquino [00:04:56]: The first thing I started doing was removing everything that wasn’t tax. Enhancing our focus, understanding pricing strategy, the market, bottlenecks, and the thing bringing in 98% of the revenue. We were able to double that relatively quickly.

Rob Aquino [00:05:15]: Then I realized the real market demand was B2B. People wanted to understand their books, do corporate tax returns, start businesses, and get support. We started that product from zero, and now it represents about 40% of the business.

Anna Covert [00:05:34]: That’s incredible. Congratulations. When did you decide now was the time to write this book?

Rob Aquino [00:05:48]: I’ve always wanted to write books. Ever since high school. My mom and I had a conversation when I was a sophomore or junior. She said, “Son, I hope you make a lot of money someday because you like a nice lifestyle. Whatever you study in college, I’m not going to choose for you, but pick something that earns well.”

Rob Aquino [00:06:22]: She didn’t know this, but I was sitting there thinking I wanted to be a writer. When she said that, I thought, “Writers don’t make money.” So I studied accounting because I knew the tax business was there.

Rob Aquino [00:06:50]: When I went into wealth management, they gave this 21-year-old writer access to wealth management tools and retirement planning. I joined the FIRE movement, which stands for financial independence, retire early.

Rob Aquino [00:07:12]: The premise is: why work 40 years to retire 20 or 30 years if you could work 10 or 20 years and retire for 40? The caveat is you have to save 50% or more of your income.

Rob Aquino [00:07:30]: I thought I would work hard, retire at 40, and then write. About a year and a half ago, Harper phoned me and asked if I had ever thought about writing a book. I said yes. We talked about it, and he asked about my business process. That’s how The Small Business Money Game was born.

Anna Covert [00:07:47]: What was the book you wanted to write?

Rob Aquino [00:07:49]: It’s a book that tries to synthesize and study the philosophy of success. I want to spend my life researching where the barriers are personally and sociologically, not just financially. That will require probably a decade of research before I start writing.

Anna Covert [00:08:16]: That sounds fun. What do you think are the most common reasons small businesses hit a ceiling?

Rob Aquino [00:08:33]: There are two easy ones nobody wants to talk about. The first is that the hardest thing a person can do financially is start and grow a business because you’re in this paradox: to get to the next level, you need more resources, but to get the resources, you need to be at the next level.

Rob Aquino [00:09:08]: Of all the entrepreneurs I’ve worked with, resourcefulness is the common trait I see over and over. You have to get it done with what you have, even though it’s nearly impossible.

Rob Aquino [00:09:25]: The second is that a lot of people starting businesses today have been romanticized into thinking starting a business is easy, lifestyle-based, or the obvious way to go. Many figure out the hard way three, five, or ten years in that it isn’t the case.

Anna Covert [00:09:45]: You have to be comfortable failing too. I work with entrepreneurs launching brands, and I’ve seen industries shift quickly. Solar is one of my specialties, and with changes to the federal tax credit, many small businesses are having to pivot. Tell me more about your framework.

Rob Aquino [00:10:22]: I love the wave analogy. I use waves and ocean as a way to think about the market, like this vast open ocean.

Rob Aquino [00:10:45]: People build their boat on shore. When you’re building a business, you have all these ideas, and it feels good in the bay. Then you go all in, leave the job or hire the person before you can afford them, and enter the open market.

Rob Aquino [00:11:20]: Then you realize things get stormy. There are other boats out there and they’re big. If you get too close, they can capsize you. You realize the boat you built on shore is too small to carry the resources you have, so you have to manage that boat while building another one in the ocean.

Rob Aquino [00:11:50]: That’s a lot like strategic planning in business. Most people don’t realize when the boat gets too small and they need to build a bigger one. People also learn how to grow, hire, build benefits, and create compensation plans, but no one prepares them for when it’s time to shrink.

Anna Covert [00:12:46]: We have to talk about AI. How is AI impacting your framework in both positive and negative ways?

Rob Aquino [00:12:50]: I’ll start with the negative so I can end more positively. People feel like they’re going to get disrupted, but no one really knows how.

Rob Aquino [00:13:08]: In the SMB landscape, clients may think they can be more self-reliant now. Maybe they don’t need bookkeeping support or marketing services. They’ll probably do some things they shouldn’t do and later realize they made mistakes.

Rob Aquino [00:13:40]: In the meantime, that may create a cash flow squeeze. Larger incumbents may also try to compete because it is cheap enough to do so.

Rob Aquino [00:13:58]: But I was at lunch with banker partners, and it was interesting to see clients leaving big banks that have acquired smaller firms and going back to relationship bankers because they want to work with a human. In many ways, I think it will be positive for human relationships. The boring stuff will get automated.

Rob Aquino [00:14:20]: What I worry about is the recurring dream of people’s AIs talking to each other. You send me an email using AI, then I use my AI to respond. Are we even talking at that point?

Anna Covert [00:14:34]: That’s really interesting. It could be a sci-fi movie.

Rob Aquino [00:14:38]: I wonder how decisions are going to get made. If I’m pitching services, am I pitching you or am I pitching a large language model? I’m trying to do more physical work, in-person work, and Zoom work instead of endless back-and-forth email.

Rob Aquino [00:15:12]: On the positive side, AI will lower the barrier to entry on many products and services. It will allow small teams to compete with large players. Over time, my theory is that we won’t really need 10,000-person companies, and that’s good because it may bring humanity back to capitalism.

Anna Covert [00:15:39]: I think it may happen faster than 30 years with the way AI is growing right now.

Rob Aquino [00:15:46]: You may be right. The more consolidation that occurs, the harder it is for the economy as a whole to do well.

Anna Covert [00:16:02]: What are some of the other Breakpoint Framework tips that can help people today?

Rob Aquino [00:16:09]: I’ll walk through the first couple steps. Across about 3,500 clients, I’ve had access to sensitive data: tax returns, bank statements, P&Ls, balance sheets, and so on.

Rob Aquino [00:16:35]: I found correlations across industries and company sizes. I identified seven breakpoints that take businesses from zero to $25 million in revenue. I call them identity layers.

Rob Aquino [00:16:55]: In the beginning, you’re the salesperson and founder. You’re trying to get someone to buy something from you, and that takes you to about $100K.

Rob Aquino [00:17:10]: From $100K to a quarter million, you face the decision of whether to stay a solopreneur or build a company. From $250K to $500K, you face the hiring challenge. You need to hire real technicians, salespeople, delivery people, and product people.

Rob Aquino [00:17:35]: Now you have to become a recruiter. You had to learn sales, then build a company, and now recruit. The learning never stops. People get stuck at the role they can do themselves.

Rob Aquino [00:17:50]: Two things occur: they can’t become the operator, CEO, or shareholder, or they don’t know how to hire that person. The combination of those things is where most people flatline.

Anna Covert [00:17:59]: I can see that. It reminds me of the Peter Principle and asking whether you want to stretch.

Rob Aquino [00:18:15]: I work with high-income W-2 people who decide they’re so good at something that they’ll start a business. Then they wonder why people don’t want to buy from them or why it’s hard to sell.

Rob Aquino [00:18:40]: They thought because they cooked well or knew computers well that they could convince people to enter a service engagement. That’s a whole separate skill. They don’t see that they’re a rookie again and have to learn this new skill.

Anna Covert [00:19:20]: It’s easy to decide you don’t want to look at the credit card statements or finances. We do a lot of technology consulting and often find companies paying for software they don’t even use.

Anna Covert [00:19:57]: How do you help people understand their numbers?

Rob Aquino [00:20:10]: People are scared of their books and finances. Much of the early book focuses on your relationship with money. I call it the money game because I try to simplify things.

Rob Aquino [00:20:38]: Have you played Monopoly?

Anna Covert [00:20:42]: I love Monopoly. I was a Monopoly queen.

Rob Aquino [00:20:58]: The Small Business Money Game was an idea that came to me in 2014. I called it the Monopoly Theory. I told my brother Alex, “Isn’t it crazy how much the real world is like a large game of Monopoly?”

Rob Aquino [00:21:20]: We have a central bank. We have players making luck-based rolls. A lot of this is luck, but it’s also what you do with the luck. Depending on where you land, you still have to buy and negotiate.

Rob Aquino [00:21:43]: Monopoly has a fascinating history. Lizzie Magie invented and patented it in the early 1900s as The Landlord’s Game. She built it to teach about the downsides of capitalism, particularly concentrated land ownership.

Anna Covert [00:22:25]: That makes sense. Once you own a strip or corner, that changes everything. I liked the red and orange corner because it was cheaper to buy and build on.

Rob Aquino [00:23:03]: You’re a master Monopoly player. Statistically, if you buy orange or red, you’re likely to win. Not just because of return on investment, but because those are the most likely places for people to land.

Rob Aquino [00:23:40]: Monopoly is luck-based but also skill-based. You picked up pattern recognition. We all start with the same amount of money and income in the game, but inequality shows up quickly. Why? Because while luck matters, skill matters too.

Rob Aquino [00:24:38]: In the official rulebook, the bank technically cannot run out of money. If the bank runs out, you cut pieces of paper and write amounts on them. That is like quantitative easing.

Rob Aquino [00:25:40]: If you take Monopoly principles and apply them to the fact that life is an infinite game, it is virtually the same game.

Anna Covert [00:26:10]: Someone basically stole the game and renamed it Monopoly?

Rob Aquino [00:26:19]: There was a long lawsuit. There were two versions of Magie’s game: a cooperative version and the monopolist rules. The monopolist rules became the commercial version.

Anna Covert [00:27:26]: Now there’s every version. I’m a traditionalist. I like the classic one.

Rob Aquino [00:27:42]: I grew up playing games. Have you ever played Acquire?

Anna Covert [00:27:57]: I have not.

Rob Aquino [00:27:59]: You’d like that one. It’s trading stocks and things like that.

Anna Covert [00:28:23]: My dad played Acquire and backgammon. He was from New York.

Rob Aquino [00:28:29]: Chapter two is titled Starting from Go. In Monopoly, we all start at go and with the same amount of money. In life, we know it doesn’t work that way.

Anna Covert [00:29:00]: My dad owned Aspen Ski Tours, which eventually became Ski.com.

Rob Aquino [00:30:01]: That’s a very innovative entrepreneur. He pivoted multiple times. You saw that in real time behind the scenes.

Anna Covert [00:30:45]: I started my first company when I was eight. It was a dog babysitting company called Canine Villas.

Rob Aquino [00:31:06]: One of the strongest correlations of successful entrepreneurs is that they sold something as children.

Anna Covert [00:31:46]: I was selling drawings to my parents. They weren’t getting them for free.

Rob Aquino [00:31:58]: We all form a relationship with money very early, often between ages five and twelve. The way we see money and value gets formed early.

Rob Aquino [00:32:30]: Many people grow up with scarcity and money fears. Part of the work is changing how entrepreneurs view money, because it’s not as scarce as they think.

Rob Aquino [00:33:25]: There is also the idea of bartering. People think money started as bartering, then paper and metals. But anthropologists have found that there was never a civilization that bartered at scale. Instead, the oldest writing we have includes debt covenants from Mesopotamia.

Anna Covert [00:35:02]: A lot of people don’t realize the Federal Reserve is not the government.

Rob Aquino [00:35:49]: One quote I open a chapter with is from Henry Ford. I’ll paraphrase: it’s well enough that Americans don’t understand money, fiat currency, and central banking, because if they did, there would be a revolution by tomorrow morning.

Rob Aquino [00:36:36]: Fundamentally, money has always been about trust. Whether you go back to 3000 BC or today, money is something we agree upon and trust until we don’t. Government imposes that trust, and banks help create and control the flow of money.

Rob Aquino [00:37:50]: If I had to condense what money is fundamentally, I think it’s the language we all speak.

Anna Covert [00:38:04]: It’s also frequency and energy. Money has to flow. If it doesn’t flow, it gets around the blockage like water.

Rob Aquino [00:38:45]: Investing is a form of spending that continues the flow, because ideally it comes back with return.

Rob Aquino [00:39:35]: Proximity to the bank is critical. If we were talking about a water source, the people closest to it would get water first and get more water. Banks control the flow of money, and people with strong banking relationships pool more capital.

Anna Covert [00:40:21]: What was one turning point in your career that changed your view of leadership and growth?

Rob Aquino [00:40:26]: COVID. Nobody understands where they sit in the ocean until the tide comes out.

Rob Aquino [00:40:50]: In March 2020, I was still an advisor. The stock market had its largest drop in the shortest amount of time, and I spent two weeks convincing clients not to sell their stocks.

Rob Aquino [00:41:20]: Then my brother had all these missed calls from small businesses asking what they were going to do. Federal relief required tax returns and financials, and many small businesses did not have either up to date.

Rob Aquino [00:41:50]: I had to decide whether to build my wealth management business or help my brother’s firm solve the bookkeeping and accounting shortage for the community. I decided to help JBS build a bookkeeping business so businesses could get grants, and I never looked back.

Anna Covert [00:43:15]: COVID was a growth opportunity for my business because I specialized in digital advertising. But we also lost clients in tourism and had to look to the mainland for more work.

Anna Covert [00:45:00]: I tried to refinance my house during COVID, and because I own my own business, the process took about nine months because banks wanted W-2s.

Rob Aquino [00:45:30]: Banks often don’t fundamentally understand entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are seen as risky until they are crushing it at $25 or $50 million plus. Then banks want to be their best friend.

Rob Aquino [00:46:00]: Accounting, banking, and money are languages. Entrepreneurs don’t always speak them. We help cover the gap by providing the reports and explanations banks need.

Anna Covert [00:47:22]: This has been wonderful. How can people get ahold of you, and what’s your book launch sequence?

Rob Aquino [00:47:30]: I’ll be doing more conversations like this. I have three young kids, so I’m trying not to do a physical book tour. The book will be available everywhere: Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target. Our pre-order sales are doing very well.

Rob Aquino [00:48:12]: I’m also actively writing on Substack with a weekly newsletter where I continue the money game, not just the small business one.

Anna Covert [00:48:49]: Thank you so much. We’ll provide all of Rob’s links and his book in the channel below on YouTube. Please join me next week as I interview another industry expert on topics to help you succeed on and offline.

Anna Covert [00:49:10]: If you have not done so already, please subscribe to this channel. We are just shy of 200,000 subscribers, and that is because of you and your aloha. Continue to share this content if it feels compelling with your friends and family so I can get more great guests like Rob to share their wisdom and passion with us. I’ll see you next week in the pixels. Aloha!

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What ChatGPT Advertising Means for the Future of Digital Marketing

By thecovertcode|2026-06-19T03:05:01+00:00June 2nd, 2026|Extended Content|

A series of major platform shifts tell the history of digital marketing.

First came websites.

Then search engines.

Then social media.

Then mobile.

Now, artificial intelligence is reshaping how consumers find information and make purchasing decisions.

The rise of ChatGPT and other AI-powered platforms is creating a new marketing frontier that business leaders can no longer ignore.

From Search Engines to Answer Engines

For years, marketers focused on ranking webpages.

Today, consumers increasingly ask AI systems direct questions:

Who is the best company for this service?
Which provider should I trust?
What agency should I hire?
What product is best for my situation?
Who is the expert in this industry?

Instead of presenting a long list of search results, AI platforms often provide direct answers.

That changes everything.

Businesses now need to optimize not only for search engines but also for answer engines.

This is one of the reasons I wrote The Covert Code: to help business owners better understand the rules of digital marketing and how to make smarter decisions online.

Understanding ChatGPT Advertising

ChatGPT advertising and sponsored placements are part of a larger shift toward conversational discovery.

As AI platforms continue to grow, businesses will need to understand how to appear in AI-generated recommendations, sponsored placements, and conversational search results.

This does not mean traditional SEO is going away.

It means SEO is evolving.

The brands that succeed will be the ones that combine SEO, AEO, paid media, content strategy, authority building, reputation management, and AI visibility tracking.

The New Digital Marketing Funnel

The traditional digital marketing funnel often looked like this:

Awareness → Search → Website → Conversion

The AI-powered funnel looks more like this:

Question → Recommendation → Website → Conversion

Notice what changes.

The search results page may no longer be the main point of discovery.

That means AI needs to understand your business before the customer ever reaches your website.

Why Authority Matters More Than Ever

AI platforms are designed to organize information and provide useful answers. To achieve that, they look for signals of trust, credibility, and relevance.

Those signals may include helpful website content, clear service descriptions, reviews, external mentions, podcast appearances, thought leadership, structured data, and industry-specific expertise.

This is why authority is becoming one of the most important assets in modern marketing.

Through The Covert Code Podcast, I regularly speak with business leaders, founders, marketers, authors, and innovators about what it takes to build trust in a crowded digital world.

AI is accelerating that conversation.

What Is AEO?

AEO stands for Answer Engine Optimization.

It is the process of structuring your content so AI platforms can better understand who you are, what you do, who you serve, and why your business is credible.

A strong AEO strategy may include FAQ content, schema markup, topic clusters, internal linking, local SEO, service page optimization, review strategy, digital PR, podcast content, and authority-focused blog posts.

You can also explore more marketing tools and insights through The Covert Code free resources.

How Businesses Can Prepare

Businesses that want to prepare for AI search and ChatGPT advertising should start with a visibility audit.

Important questions include:

Does AI know your company exists?
Is your business mentioned when customers ask relevant questions?
Are competitors showing up more often than you?
Is your website structured clearly?
Do you have enough authority signals?
Are your services straightforward for AI systems to understand?
Are you tracking AI referral traffic and leads?

If the answer to any of these questions is unclear, your business may need an AI visibility strategy.

How Covert Communication Can Help

At Covert Communication, we help businesses improve their visibility across search engines, answer engines, and emerging AI platforms.

Our team supports businesses with SEO, AEO, AI-ready content, ChatGPT advertising strategy, paid media, website optimization, digital PR, authority building, AI visibility reporting, and lead generation strategy.

The goal is not just to get more clicks.

The goal is to make your business easier to find, trust, and choose.

Interested businesses can contact Covert Communication to learn more about AI Visibility Assessments and ChatGPT advertising opportunities.

Final Thoughts

ChatGPT advertising may become one of the next major digital advertising channels.

But even before AI ads become mainstream, AI visibility is already influencing how people discover businesses online.

The future of marketing is conversational.

The question is not whether AI will impact your business.

The question is whether your business will be part of the answers AI provides.

To keep learning, explore The Covert Code News & Events, listen to The Covert Code Podcast, or contact us to start a conversation.

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Episode 115 – Lou Chatta

By thecovertcode|2026-06-09T21:17:33+00:00May 28th, 2026|Author, Get Your Geek On, Podcasts|

The AI Experience Economy: How Pintours Is Reimagining Travel with Lou Chatta

On this episode of The Covert Code Podcast, I sat down with Lou Chatta, founder of Pintours, to discuss the AI Experience Economy and how artificial intelligence is transforming the way people travel, explore, and connect with places around the world.

Lou’s company is building an AI-powered orchestration layer for travel experiences, combining transportation, attractions, restaurants, local knowledge, and personalization into one seamless journey. Instead of forcing travelers into generic group tours or expensive private guide experiences, Pintours is using AI to make personalized, guided experiences more accessible, scalable, and affordable.

From Apple Special Projects to AI-Powered Travel

Before launching Pintours, Lou worked at Apple Special Projects, where he helped develop health-focused products and technologies. That experience showed him how to turn subject matter expertise into powerful technology.

The inspiration for Pintours came from something much more personal: his father was a tour guide. Lou saw firsthand how much knowledge local guides carry in their heads and how difficult it is to scale that kind of expertise.

That became the central idea behind Pintours: what if the knowledge of local guides could be digitized and used to create personalized experiences for anyone, anywhere?

Why Generic Travel Experiences Fall Short

One of the biggest problems Lou identified is that most travel experiences are generic. A group tour may work for logistics, but it often fails to meet the needs of individual travelers.

Some people want history. Some want food. Some want romance, adventure, shopping, family-friendly experiences, accessibility, or a very specific pace. A private guide can personalize the journey, but that kind of experience is often expensive and difficult to scale.

Pintours is trying to solve that gap.

How Pintours Works

Lou described Pintours as an AI orchestration layer. In simple terms, it acts almost like a best friend who knows your preferences and can plan the experience for you.

A traveler might say they have only one hour in a destination, want to learn about history, need transportation, and want food afterward. Pintours can then help coordinate the transportation, tickets, storytelling, restaurant reservation, and timing into one connected experience.

The experience can also be adapted for each person. A parent, child, and grandparent could all be in the same location but receive storytelling tailored to their interests.

That level of personalization is where AI becomes especially powerful.

Empowering Local Guides

One of the most important parts of the Pintours model is that it does not simply replace local guides. It creates a way for guides to turn their knowledge into a scalable income stream.

Pintours works with local guides by interviewing them, gathering their expertise, and building AI-powered experiences based on their knowledge. When people use those experiences, guides earn money from the content and expertise they contributed.

This is a powerful example of how AI not only automates but also empowers people with deep local knowledge.

AI, Trust, and the Future of Travel

We also talked about trust and safety, especially as Pintours expands into more global destinations. Lou explained that the platform can help travelers feel more secure by coordinating transportation, tracking experiences, offering support, and creating a more structured journey.

That is especially meaningful in unfamiliar destinations where travelers may not know which vendors to trust or how to navigate the area safely.

AI can help personalize the experience, but it can also help create confidence.

The FIFA World Cup Opportunity

One of the most exciting parts of the conversation was hearing how Pintours is working with FIFA World Cup host cities. The opportunity is not just about what happens inside the stadium. It is about what visitors do before and after the match.

Travelers coming into host cities will need restaurants, transportation, attractions, local experiences, and personalized recommendations. Pintours is building experiences that extend beyond the stadium and help visitors explore each city in a more intentional way.

That is a major shift in how destinations can think about tourism, events, and economic impact.

AI Is Already Powering More Than We Realize

Lou also pointed out that many people may not realize how much AI is already powering the apps, services, and experiences they use every day.

From customer service to logistics, reservations, recommendations, and operational efficiency, AI is increasingly working behind the scenes. Pin Tours is bringing that intelligence into the live experience itself, helping people navigate the real world with greater personalization and ease.

This connects directly to many of the AI and digital transformation conversations I explore through AnnaCovert.com and The Covert Code.

A New Revenue Stream for Guides and Creators

For people who know a city, a neighborhood, a park, a food scene, or a cultural experience deeply, Pin Tours creates an opportunity to turn that expertise into income.

Lou invited people from anywhere in the world to apply as guides or drivers through Pintours.com. Even if someone does not live in a specific city, they may still be able to contribute knowledge about places they know well.

This opens the door for a new kind of experience creator economy.

The Future of Personalized Exploration

This episode was a fascinating look at how AI is moving beyond screens and into real-world experiences. Travel is no longer just about booking flights and hotels. It is about designing meaningful moments.

Pin Tours is showing what happens when local expertise, artificial intelligence, transportation, reservations, and storytelling come together in one personalized journey.

The future of travel may not be about choosing from a fixed itinerary.

It may be about having the experience built around you.

Listen to the Full Episode

Watch the full episode of The Covert Code Podcast featuring Lou Chatta and learn more about the future of AI-powered travel.

You can also connect with Lou on LinkedIn or explore Pin Tours at pintours.com.

And if you’re interested in conversations around AI, authority, innovation, leadership, and the future of digital transformation, explore more episodes and articles at:

📖 GET THE BOOK: The Covert Code – Mastering the Art of Digital Marketing
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Barnes & Noble: https://rb.gy/vwev0a
Target: https://rb.gy/jhpxri

ANNA’S WEBSITES:
The Covert Code: https://thecovertcode.com/
Anna Covert: https://annacovert.com/
Covert Communication: https://covertcommunication.com/
Reactium: https://reactium.io/

⚠️ Affiliate Disclosure: Some links included may be affiliate links, which means we may earn a commission if you choose to make a purchase through them at no additional cost to you.

Transcript: The AI Experience Economy with Lou Chatta

Episode: The Covert Code Podcast

Host: Anna Covert

Guest: Lou Chatta

Anna Covert [00:00:04]: Aloha. My name is Anna Covert, and I’m coming to you from my battleship here on the beautiful island of Oahu. This week on The Covert Code, the topic is the AI Experience Economy.

Anna Covert [00:00:14]: My very special guest is Lou Chatta, founder of Pin Tours, who’s building an orchestration layer behind a $1.5 trillion market combining travel, transportation, events, and leisure into a seamless personal shopping experience with partners like Uber and GetYourGuide, as well as working with FIFA World Cup host cities.

Anna Covert [00:00:37]: Today, we’ll be diving into how AI is transforming experiences as we know it. I’m so excited to be having this conversation. Thanks so much for being here today.

Lou Chatta [00:00:53]: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m really excited to dive in and tell you more about how Pin Tours is transforming experiences all over the world.

Anna Covert [00:00:59]: Let’s jump in. I like to begin with the CliffsNotes version. Where did you start, and how did you get to where you are right now?

Lou Chatta [00:01:11]: Before launching Pin Tours, I was at Apple Special Projects, working with the R&D team that creates new products behind what Apple ships. I was on the health team, and any product in health that you see today, my team touched.

Lou Chatta [00:01:35]: We worked with subject matter experts and built new technologies around what they knew, specifically doctors and what they had seen in their industry. I spent seven years there and launched a lot of products, including EKG, journals, and many others.

Lou Chatta [00:01:55]: My dad was a tour guide, and I started thinking about how the same things we were doing with doctors could apply to travel. Guided experiences are the most luxurious and best type of experience because someone who knows you personally can show you around and turn something generic into something meaningful.

Lou Chatta [00:02:40]: The problem is that it is expensive and does not scale. Private guide experiences are usually reserved for more luxurious travelers. Most businesses and experiences either do not offer them or offer generic headsets and group guides.

Lou Chatta [00:03:28]: We wanted to solve that. We found that guides have immense knowledge of the world and the places they know, but all that knowledge exists in their heads. We leverage the knowledge they have built over years and build AI around it.

Lou Chatta [00:04:00]: Pin Tours AI works with locals in different areas and digitizes their experience into an AI that works for anyone. Now anyone in the world can use our technology and have a personalized experience anywhere they go.

Lou Chatta [00:04:35]: We are powering drives with Uber, attractions, parks, pop-up experiences, tours, and some really cool work with World Cup host cities. When people come to the U.S. for the World Cup, we are building out experiences in the stadium, outside the stadium, and into the cities, making it fully personalized.

Anna Covert [00:05:19]: That’s amazing. Living in Hawaii, which is all about experience, I really resonate with what you’re saying. Give me an example. If I’m on a cruise and want a private tour in a historical location, how would that customer journey work with Pin Tours?

Lou Chatta [00:07:03]: Let’s say you’re going on a cruise. We partner with cruise lines, so you may see it in the app you booked through. We ask what you’re looking for because everyone wants something different. Maybe you want to dive deep into history, but you only have one hour and you’re hungry.

Lou Chatta [00:07:45]: We take all of that into consideration, including budget and restrictions. We can get you a chauffeur, reserve tickets, build out your tour, personalize the storytelling from pickup to the site, and even book a restaurant afterward.

Lou Chatta [00:08:20]: The experience is personalized to your language, your travel style, and what you care about. Some people want deep history. Some want photos and fun. Whatever kind of traveler you are, we build the journey around that.

Anna Covert [00:09:14]: If I have my daughter and my mom with me, and we all have different interests, can we each have our own custom experience?

Lou Chatta [00:09:39]: Absolutely. Everyone can have their own device and build their own personal experience. We can also create a group experience that ties everyone together, calling out different people’s interests while you are listening together.

Anna Covert [00:10:00]: How are you getting this information? Are you sitting down with experts in each location?

Lou Chatta [00:10:19]: We work exclusively with local guides. We interview them for one or two hours and dive deep into the locations they know, what is special, and what they recommend. Then we build tours and experiences from that data.

Lou Chatta [00:10:40]: The best part is that we are empowering guides. Anytime an experience is used, the guides make money. They own their knowledge, and we are giving them a new way to share it without having to be physically there.

Anna Covert [00:11:13]: That makes me think about people who cannot travel because of age or injury. Is this something that could eventually include virtual experiences?

Lou Chatta [00:11:30]: Today we are focused on real-life experiences, but down the line, we could absolutely explore VR, videos, and immersive storytelling for people who cannot physically be there.

Anna Covert [00:11:58]: Where are you launching right now?

Lou Chatta [00:12:11]: We launched in San Francisco last year and tested the app. Now we are in growth mode, expanding into Honolulu, New York, and LA. Then we want to reach all 11 World Cup host cities.

Anna Covert [00:12:31]: What are your thoughts on AI and the future of experiences?

Lou Chatta [00:12:57]: AI is going to come everywhere. It is not something we should be afraid of. We should look at ways to use it to our advantage. In San Francisco, we already have self-driving cars and AI-powered experiences. AI is here.

Lou Chatta [00:13:35]: We are careful about how we introduce it. We focus on personalization and empowering tour guides. It is the same experience you would have with a human tour guide, just more scalable.

Anna Covert [00:14:10]: What about AI hallucinations or feedback loops? How do you improve the system?

Lou Chatta [00:14:29]: After every experience, we ask customers to review it. Every time we get feedback, the system gets better. We learn what you like and don’t like, so the next experience is better. We

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Episode 111 – Carly Foy

By thecovertcode|2026-05-22T22:23:26+00:00April 16th, 2026|Get Your Geek On, Podcasts, SolarCoaster|

Carly Foy on the Future of Programmatic Advertising and Why Most Brands Are Getting It Wrong

Digital advertising didn’t start with precision.

It started with guesswork.

Buying placements.
Hoping for reach.
Assuming the right audience was watching.

But today?

Everything has changed.

In this episode of The Covert Code Podcast, Carly Foy from StackAdapt breaks down how programmatic advertising evolved—and why most brands still aren’t using it correctly.

From Guesswork to Precision Targeting

Traditional media buying relied on assumptions.

• “This audience watches this show.”
• “This demographic reads this publication.”

But programmatic changed everything.

Now, advertisers can:

• Target based on behavior
• Use contextual AI to match content
• Deliver ads in real-time environments

The shift?

From placement-based buying → to audience-first strategy

Why Contextual AI Is a Game-Changer

One of the most powerful tools discussed is contextual targeting using AI.

Instead of relying on outdated categories, platforms now offer:

• Analyze page content in real-time
• Use natural language processing
• Match ads to true intent

Example:

“Java” ≠ always coffee
Could mean programming

Modern systems understand that nuance.

That’s the difference between the following:

👉 Showing ads
👉 Showing the right ads

The Biggest Mistake Brands Still Make

Here’s the reality:

Most brands are still operating in silos.

They focus on:

• Performance OR awareness
• Clicks OR impressions

But not both.

Carly makes it clear:

👉 You cannot scale performance without awareness
👉 You cannot sustain awareness without performance

The two must work together.

The Truth About Attribution (That No One Wants to Admit)

This is where it gets real.

Not everything can be tracked.

And trying to track everything?

👉 Creates bad decisions

Key takeaways:

• Post-click ≠ full story
• Post-view matters
• Attribution windows must align across channels
• Over-crediting platforms is a real issue

The most significant insight:

👉 Data should guide decisions—not replace judgment

The Rise of First-Party Data

With privacy changes and signal loss, brands must adapt.

The advantage now goes to companies that:

• Own their customer data
• Build direct relationships
• Use apps and CRM systems
• Create stronger remarketing loops

First-party data isn’t optional anymore.

It’s the competitive edge.

Fraud, Transparency, and Trust

One of the most important conversations in this episode:

👉 Digital ad fraud is real—and growing

Carly shares how platforms combat this issue through the following methods:

• Human verification systems
• Inclusion lists
• IP filtering
• Third-party verification (like DoubleVerify)
• TAG certification

But the key takeaway?

👉 Ask better questions about where your ads run

Why Programmatic Is Still Just Getting Started

Despite everything, programmatic is still evolving.

What’s coming next:

• AI-driven predictive outcomes
• Smarter attribution models
• Better cross-channel alignment
• Hyper-personalized creative

And most importantly:

👉 A shift toward smarter—not just more—data

Connect with Carly Foy

LinkedIn: https://www.stackadapt.com/resources/author/carly-foy
StackAdapt: https://www.stackadapt.com/

Podcast Transcript: Carly Foy on Programmatic Advertising

Episode Topic: Programmatic Advertising

Podcast: The Covert Code Podcast

Host: Anna Covert

Guest: Carly Foy

[00:00] Anna Covert: Aloha. My name is Anna Covert. And this week on The Covert Code Podcast, the topic is programmatic advertising, and my special guest is Carly Foy from StackAdapt.

[00:14] Anna Covert: Thanks so much for being here with me today, Carly.

[00:18] Carly Foy: Thanks for having me!

[00:20] Anna Covert: To kick things off, can you share your cliff notes version of how you got to where you are today?

[00:28] Carly Foy: Absolutely. I’ve been in the digital advertising space for over a decade, working across different platforms and roles, but programmatic has really become my focus over the past several years. At StackAdapt, I work closely with clients to help them understand how to leverage programmatic in a strategic and effective way.

[00:52] Anna Covert: That’s awesome. So let’s start with the basics—what exactly is programmatic advertising?

[01:00] Carly Foy: Programmatic advertising is essentially the automated buying and selling of digital ad space in real time. It allows advertisers to target specific audiences using data, rather than just placing ads on specific websites and hoping the right people see them.

[01:21] Anna Covert: That’s such a big shift from traditional advertising, right?

[01:25] Carly Foy: Exactly. It’s moved from placement-based buying to audience-based targeting. Instead of saying “I want my ad on this site,” you’re saying “I want my ad in front of this type of person,” regardless of where they are online.

[01:44] Anna Covert: That makes so much sense. So where does AI come into play?

[01:50] Carly Foy: AI is a huge part of programmatic. It helps analyze data, optimize campaigns, and even understand context. For example, contextual AI can determine what content is on a page and match ads accordingly. So if someone is reading about coffee, it might serve a coffee-related ad—but it’s smart enough to distinguish between “Java” the programming language and “Java” the beverage.

[02:18] Anna Covert: That’s incredible. So what do you think most brands are getting wrong when it comes to programmatic?

[02:26] Carly Foy: One of the biggest mistakes is treating awareness and performance as separate strategies. They really need to work together. You can’t expect performance without awareness, and awareness alone won’t drive results without a performance strategy behind it.

[02:45] Anna Covert: That’s such a good point. Let’s talk about attribution—because I feel like that’s something a lot of marketers struggle with.

[02:55] Carly Foy: Absolutely. Attribution is one of the biggest challenges in digital marketing. Not everything can be tracked, and trying to track everything can actually lead to misleading conclusions. You have to look at both post-click and post-view data and understand how different channels contribute to the customer journey.

[03:20] Anna Covert: So it’s not as simple as “this click led to this sale.”

[03:25] Carly Foy: Exactly. It’s much more complex than that. Multiple touchpoints influence a decision, and attribution models need to reflect that.

[03:37] Anna Covert: What about first-party data? That seems to be a big topic right now.

[03:43] Carly Foy: It is. With increasing privacy regulations and the decline of third-party cookies, first-party data is becoming more valuable than ever. Brands need to build direct relationships with their audiences and leverage their own data to stay competitive.

[04:02] Anna Covert: That makes sense. Let’s talk about fraud—because that’s something I hear about a lot.

[04:09] Carly Foy: Yes, ad fraud is definitely a concern. But there are ways to mitigate it. Platforms like StackAdapt use various tools and partnerships to ensure brand safety and minimize fraud, including verification systems and inclusion lists.

[04:27] Anna Covert: That’s reassuring. So what does the future of programmatic look like?

[04:33] Carly Foy: We’re going to see even more AI integration, better personalization, and more advanced attribution models. The key will be using data intelligently—not just collecting more of it.

[04:49] Anna Covert: That’s such a great takeaway. Carly, thank you so much for being here today.

[04:55] Carly Foy: Thank you! This was great.

[04:58] Anna Covert: And to all my listeners, thank you for tuning in. Don’t forget to subscribe, and I’ll see you next week in the pixels. Aloha!

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The Covert Code Launches “Authority as a Growth Strategy” A Forbes Books special podcast series presented by The Covert Code

By thecovertcode|2026-05-22T23:26:55+00:00April 7th, 2026|In The Media, Press Releases|

Authority as a Growth Strategy is the foundation behind building credibility, influence, and long-term business success in today’s competitive marketplace.

New four-part series explores authorship, thought leadership, and authority building for CEOs and C-suite leaders

The Covert Code podcast has launched a new four-part educational series titled “Authority as a Growth Strategy” featuring senior executives from The Authority Company, the parent company of Forbes Books.

The series delivers strategic insight for CEOs, entrepreneurs, and C-suite leaders seeking to build authority, expand visibility, and convert thought leadership into measurable business growth.

As executive visibility increasingly affects enterprise valuation, strategic partnerships, recruiting leverage, and customer trust, “Authority as a Growth Strategy” explores how leaders can intentionally develop authority as a competitive business asset.

Executive Authority in the Modern Marketplace

The “Authority as a Growth Strategy” series brings together The Authority Company’s senior leadership team for in-depth conversations on authorship strategy, publishing excellence, media positioning, and brand expansion.

Each episode provides actionable frameworks designed to help leaders move beyond passive visibility and toward intentional authority building.

Featured executives include:

Beth LaGuardia Cooper, President & Chief Marketing Officer, The Authority Company

Beth LaGuardia Cooper oversees brand strategy, public relations, and marketing operations across Advantage Media Group. Cooper, with her experience in leading performance-driven marketing initiatives, discusses the strategic engineering of executive authority to create sustained market credibility.

Episode 1: She examines “The Big Picture”—How authority, trust, and visibility are reshaping the way leaders grow in an AI-driven world.

The intersection of brand clarity and authority positioning
How media visibility drives business outcomes
The role of long-term reputation strategy in executive growth

Natalie Mazzarella, Vice President of Authority Brand Building

Natalie Mazzarella leads the strategic expansion of Advantage Media’s media services, helping authors transform their ideas into scalable personal brands.

Episode 2 covers “Authority Brand Building” – Becoming the Face of Your Brand

Building an integrated authority ecosystem
Leveraging media, speaking engagements, and digital platforms
Turning thought leadership into sustained influence

Tyler LeBleu, Senior Vice President of Publishing

Tyler LeBleu oversees the full publishing lifecycle for authors, directing writing & editorial, production, creative design, and supply chain operations.

In Episode 3 Tyler focuses on “Demystifying the Publishing “Process”—Accelerating Your Authority Journey.

What distinguishes a strategic business book from a vanity project
Publishing processes that reinforce credibility
How execution quality impacts long-term authority

Terry Stanton, Authority Strategy Executive

Terry Stanton helps global and personal brands design visibility strategies that elevate influence. Her background spans public relations, marketing strategy, SEO writing, video production, and broadcast journalism.

In Episode 4, Terry discusses “Brand Building”—Start With the End in Mind: Designing Your Authority Journey

Tactical strategies for translating executive expertise into thought leadership
Insights on integrating traditional media with digital platforms
Frameworks for building scalable authority assets

Why Authority Matters Now

In an era of rapid content creation and AI-generated information, credibility has become both more fragile and more valuable. The “Authority as a Growth Strategy” podcast series addresses the growing demand among executives to control their narrative and differentiate in competitive markets.

The series is distributed across YouTube and major podcast platforms and is supported by short-form digital content designed to expand reach nationwide.

“Authority is not accidental—it’s strategic capital,” said Anna Covert, host of The Covert Code. “When leaders approach authorship and media intentionally, they build influence that compounds over time.”

The “Authority as a Growth Strategy” series is now streaming on The Covert Code podcast

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Episode 110 – Maria Garaitonandia

By thecovertcode|2026-04-21T01:49:44+00:00April 2nd, 2026|Podcasts|

Maria Garaitonandia on How High-Performing Teams Talk When No One’s Watching

Communication doesn’t typically break in a single moment.

It drifts.

It softens.
It gets avoided.
It goes unspoken.

And by the time leaders recognize it, the impact is already showing up—in slower decisions, misalignment, and quiet tension across teams.

In this episode of The Covert Code Podcast, Anna Covert sits down with Maria Garaitonandia, leadership coach, communication strategist, and author of Untangling Communication, to explore how communication breaks down before anyone says a word.

This isn’t about obvious conflict.

This episode delves into the underlying dynamics of communication, specifically the conversations that often go unspoken.

Who Is Maria Garaitonandia?

Maria Garaitonandia is a leadership communication strategist with over 20 years of experience working with global teams across the U.S., Latin America, and Europe.

She helps leaders restore the following:

• Clarity
• Trust
• Alignment
• Momentum

Her work focuses on the moments where communication isn’t broken—but isn’t flowing.

Because that’s where problems actually begin.

The Silent Start of Communication Breakdown

One of the most powerful insights from this conversation:

👉 Communication issues don’t start with conflict.
👉 They start with avoidance.

Leaders often assume everything is fine because no one is speaking up.

But in reality:

• Conversations are being delayed
• Feedback is being softened
• Misalignment is growing quietly

The absence of conflict doesn’t mean alignment.

It often means the opposite.

Where Misalignment Shows Up First

Before teams openly acknowledge problems, misalignment manifests in subtle ways:

• Meetings that feel unclear
• Decisions that don’t stick
• Teams that agree publicly but hesitate privately
• A lack of forward momentum

These signals are simple to ignore.

But over time, they compound into bigger issues that are harder to fix.

Why Leaders Avoid Difficult Conversations

Avoidance isn’t random.

It’s driven by intention—just not always the right kind.

Leaders avoid conversations because they want to:

• Preserve relationships
• Avoid tension
• Maintain stability
• Protect team morale

But what feels like protection often creates long-term friction.

Because what isn’t addressed doesn’t disappear.

It builds.

The Real Cost of Communication Drift

When communication issues linger, the cost is both visible and invisible.

On the surface:

• Slower execution
• Missed opportunities
• Reduced clarity

Beneath the surface:

• Eroded trust
• Frustration
• Disengagement

Maria emphasizes that communication challenges are usually about more than just what’s being said.

They’re about what isn’t being said.

Culture Shapes Communication

Every organization has unspoken rules.

These rules determine:

• What people feel safe saying
• What gets filtered out
• Who speaks up—and who stays silent

Maria’s global experience shows that across cultures, one thing remains consistent:

People adjust their communication based on perceived safety—not truth.

Rebuilding Trust and Clarity

The positive news?

Communication can be restored.

But it requires leaders to take intentional action.

That starts with:

• Naming what’s been avoided
• Creating space for honest dialogue
• Modeling transparency
• Resetting expectations

Trust isn’t built through perfect communication.

It’s built through honest communication.

The One Shift That Changes Everything

If there’s one takeaway from this episode, it’s this lesson:

👉 Leaders don’t need better scripts.
👉 They need better awareness.

The willingness to notice what feels “off” and address it early can immediately restore clarity and momentum.

Because high-performing teams aren’t the ones without tension.

They’re the ones that know how to move through it.

Connect with Maria Garaitonandia

Website: https://www.mariagaraitonandia.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MariaGaraitonandia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mariagaraitonandia/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/globalbridgestraining
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariagaraitonandia/

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