Podcast Transcript: Shaoqing Sun on Unleashing Boundless Creativity

Podcast: The Covert Code Podcast

Host: Anna Covert

Guest: Dr. Shaoqing Sun

Episode Topic: Unleashing Boundless Creativity

[00:00:04] Anna Covert: Aloha. My name is Anna Covert, and I'm coming to you from my battleship here on the beautiful island of Oahu. This week on The Covert Code Podcast, the topic is Unleashing Boundless Creativity.

My very special guest is Dr. Shaoqing Sun, founder of C&C Reservoirs, scientist, and author of the Forbes bestselling book From Burnout to Bliss: Dissolve Your Ego, Fuel Your Success, and Find True Fulfillment.

For more than three decades, he has worked with global energy leaders to make smarter, lower-risk decisions. Now, he is here to share a deeper truth: success doesn’t fail people — ego-driven success does.

Today, he works with entrepreneurs and business leaders of all kinds to help them dissolve ego, find untapped boundless creativity, and turn their leadership style from overdrive into effortless purpose.

Thanks so much for being here today with me.

[00:01:03] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Thank you very much for the nice introduction. It is my honor and my pleasure to be here.

[00:01:10] Anna Covert: And thank you for the book. I just started reading it at my gym, and I really love it so far. I can’t wait to finish it and do my own review for the book.

To start us off, we love for everyone to give us the Cliff Notes version. For you in particular, since that is really the meat of why you wrote this book, tell us how you got from where you were to where you are, and what was the baseline for deciding to write this masterpiece?

[00:01:40] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: I started my business over 30 years ago, after my PhD dissertation and after working with other companies for several years. The foundation of the business really started in my passion and drive.

I always dreamed of studying global operations, global reservoirs, and global fields. I love to see things in context rather than studying details in isolation. When I started the business, I focused on global basins, reservoirs, and fields as analogs, and how analogs could help make smarter, more informed decisions.

I was extremely hardworking, ego-driven, and ambitious. I worked 14, 15, 16 hours a day, seven days a week. No holidays, no breaks. I was doing multiple jobs — research, marketing, management, traveling, engaging with customers, and building a team.

With that kind of intensity, the business grew quickly in the early stage. The first ten years were very successful. But after ten years, the business ran into deep trouble through legal battles, personal health issues, and all kinds of challenges.

My identity was performance. It was numbers, contracts, customers, revenue, and market expansion. Performance was my identity. Once performance was in trouble, I lost my identity. That means I lost my direction and purpose. I did not know the purpose of my life. I struggled painfully for many years.

Then, by chance, I picked up a book called From Science to God. As a scientist and an atheist, I did not accept anything I could not see, feel, or work through logically. I never thought I would touch anything invisible.

But I realized the book was about conscious evolution. The essence of who we are as humans is consciousness. We are conscious beings, masked by mental noise. That book led me to many similar books, workshops, and experts in the field. That took me on an inward journey.

An inward journey means focusing on your inner feelings rather than external events. That conscious journey has lasted almost 15 years.

[00:05:47] Anna Covert: I’m sure it’s still going.

[00:05:48] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: It is still going. It never ends. You practice every day. You change and get better. It is like playing basketball or any sport. You need to practice every day and keep sharpening your skills. There is always room for improvement.

This is a fascinating journey. The purpose of writing the book is to share my journey as a traditional, logical, driven scientist — probably similar to many entrepreneurs and business leaders. There is a way out, and the way is simpler than we think. It is not mystical. It can be put into day-to-day practice. It is science-based, neuroscience-based, and consciousness-based.

This journey has completely transformed my life and business. Today, I run my business and live my life like a drama. I play seriously, but without attachment. I run the business without much effort. My productivity and performance are probably tenfold or more than before, with probably 10% of the time.

[00:07:45] Anna Covert: Wow. For people who don’t know what reservoirs are, we’re talking about oil fields and the data you’ve created so people can look at historical representations of where oil has been. Can you tell us a little bit more about C&C Reservoirs, who your clients are, and what you’re doing?

[00:07:46] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Over 30 years ago, we started by collecting data from all over the world — hundreds of basins and hundreds of countries. We collect data from everywhere in the world where there is oil and gas production.

The most challenging part is once you collect the data, what do you do with it? We have a rigorous scientific approach to analyzing, verifying, and classifying data. Our unique contribution to the industry is the quality of data, integration of data, and building coherent stories from the data.

You need to verify, classify, standardize, and structure data — not for academic exercise, but for solving industry problems. Everything we do focuses on real-life challenges and application scenarios.

That is why I spend most of my time engaging with customers. I enjoy engaging with customers and deep-diving into data with scientific rigor and practical application scenarios in mind.

[00:09:28] Anna Covert: That’s why I wanted you to share that. When people are listening, they should understand that today there is even more stress and more requirements around the global need for oil. You must be busier than ever right now.

[00:10:00] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Absolutely. That is the key point that fuels me and drives me toward more business success. I see the biggest contribution and purpose of my life in running a business as making our customers’ lives easier and helping global energy leaders make smarter, more informed, less risky decisions.

That excites me. I lead a team of top-notch scientists and engineers who dive deep and try to solve problems from the root cause.

In exploration and early development, there is always uncertainty and risk. Drilling a deepwater well can cost tens of millions to over $100 million. Developing a field can cost hundreds of millions, billions, or tens of billions of dollars.

Many decisions are based on assumptions, hypotheses, and interpretations, which come with inherent uncertainty. Our job is to benchmark those assumptions and hypotheses against real-life examples.

We document facts from the last 100 years of global exploration and development. We identify best practices and lessons learned so companies can avoid repeating mistakes and make smarter decisions.

In today’s AI era, this is even more relevant. AI is a machine, not human. The quality of the answer you expect from AI depends on the quality of your input and thoughts. The biggest challenge today is data quality, consistency, and coherency. Garbage in, garbage out.

In petroleum exploration and development, AI is still used as a tool, not as the ultimate decision maker. Decision-making is still human-driven because it relies not only on data, but also on the accuracy of the data and emotional elements. The consciousness of the decision maker matters. Are they ego-driven or consciousness-driven?

The same data interpreted by different people with different consciousness will produce different results.

[00:13:38] Anna Covert: This is a great segue to my next question. You’ve said that success doesn’t kill people — ego-driven success does. What does that look like in real life?

[00:14:00] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Success itself is neutral. It depends on what is behind the success.

Some success is ego-driven and looks very successful on the surface. It is measured by title, wealth, name, or status. But the success I am talking about is sustainable, long-lasting success driven by a different purpose.

Ego-driven success means your identity, purpose, and meaning of life are tied to performance. The better your performance, the happier you feel and the more worthwhile your life feels.

But the more success you achieve, the hungrier you become. That is human nature. Eventually, your desire will overrun your ability to achieve and perform.

Your performance does not depend only on your own ability or hard work. It also depends on your team, external environment, and geopolitics. Challenges are always there. If you are ego-driven, you do not have the capacity to see things clearly, build a coherent team, or align objectives with inner clarity.

You have a distorted reality. Sooner or later, you run into serious trouble physically, emotionally, or professionally. Once trouble begins, you feel like your life is threatened because your life is tied to performance. If performance is in trouble, your life feels threatened. That fear and anxiety is what I call burnout.

Burnout is not just physical or emotional. It is the loss of identity.

[00:17:07] Anna Covert: I have a question for you. With AI disrupting industries like trucking, accounting, and law, many people attach their lives to a title. If that gets taken away, what does that mean for them? This is not just a corporate problem. It is a human problem.

[00:18:14] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Absolutely. AI is causing massive disruption to world order, individuals, and corporations. But this is not the first time technology has disrupted life.

If you look at industrial revolutions over the last few hundred years, new technology always disrupts people’s lives. We must look at new technology positively. In the short run, it makes people uncomfortable. In the long run, it improves productivity, creates more wealth, and creates new jobs.

As humans, we have to learn, evolve, and observe. My book talks about resolving the headache that is ego-driven and fear-based.

Whenever something challenging happens, our automatic program projects into the future and asks, “What does this mean for me?” It often imagines the worst-case scenario. That creates fear-based decision-making.

But as mature adults, we know the future is rarely as bad as we imagine. On the other extreme, some people fantasize about beautiful future success, but that future also never comes just from fantasy.

There are many variables shaping the outcome of life. No one knows the future.

[00:20:42] Anna Covert: We don’t want to know the future. That would be boring. You wouldn’t want to know your future.

[00:20:54] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: It would be devastating to know the future. It would also be devastating to live forever.

If you had unlimited life, you would ruin your life because you would have unlimited resources. We treasure resources because they are limited. We treasure life because it is limited.

There is nothing we can do about our lifespan, but we can make life more meaningful and enjoyable. That is what matters to me. I do not care whether I live another five or ten years. I care about how I enjoy life and impact other people.

[00:21:46] Anna Covert: That is wonderful. For people listening right now, what is one thing they can do today to start using these skills?

[00:22:09] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: If you have a headache today, do you want a painkiller, or do you want to address the root cause of the headache?

If you want a quick fix, that is one path. But if you want a different life — effortless career, intuitive intelligence, inner peace, and emotional stability — you need serious commitment and a disciplined approach.

Everything starts with consciousness. Most people think life is only mind and body. But there is another element: consciousness.

Consciousness is the center. If you imagine watching a movie, the mind and body are the screen and the pictures. Consciousness is the light from the projector. Whatever you see on the screen comes from consciousness.

You cannot expect a beautiful picture without beautiful consciousness. Our reality is a manifestation of our level of consciousness.

Most people are run by programs reflecting genes, culture, parents, and society. Under pressure, they react automatically.

[00:25:21] Anna Covert: The victim mentality, right? Like nothing happens to you — you make things happen.

[00:25:28] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Yes. The shift in consciousness changes that.

Awareness is being aware of your thoughts, emotions, and behavior without being part of them. Bring self-awareness into life.

Whenever you are in trouble or facing a challenge, instead of rushing into fear-based decisions, pause. Bring awareness. Notice your thoughts. Notice where they come from. Most thoughts are about the past or future. Mental noise is garbage.

[00:26:45] Anna Covert: It is amazing and shocking. I started meditating a year ago, and I agree. When you become even a little aware, you realize your thoughts are on repeat. That is the first step into inner peace.

[00:27:17] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Yes. Mental noise is distorted and far from truth. Truth comes from consciousness.

If you need a painkiller, bring awareness whenever you need it. But I want to take people to a long-term journey. It is lifelong commitment and discipline.

It does not require a lot of time — only around 15 minutes a day.

[00:28:27] Anna Covert: Fifteen minutes. You can do it.

[00:28:28] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: If someone says they don’t have 15 minutes, my question is: what is the meaning of your life? If you do not have 15 minutes, you are living like a machine.

[00:29:01] Anna Covert: People are on their phones scrolling. Put down the social media. Everyone has time.

[00:29:17] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: There are eight chapters in my book, and each chapter has exercises. Spend 15 minutes going through the exercises and building a routine.

In my personal case, I start the morning with yoga. It is called the Tibetan Five Rites for rejuvenation. I talk about it in the book. It combines physical, emotional, and mindfulness energy building.

I also pray before yoga every day. My prayer is not from any Bible or mystical book. I wrote it from my own 15 years of experience:

I surrender myself to universal consciousness and embrace the flow of life. No struggle, no resistance, no obsession, no judgment. I thank universal consciousness for blessing my family, for always guiding me. May my life be filled with love, joy, peace, and a beautiful state.

That is the compass of my life.

[00:31:38] Anna Covert: I love that. That is wonderful.

[00:31:39] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Every day I pray, practice yoga, and bring awareness when situations become challenging. That has been my habit for 15 years.

At the beginning, it is always challenging. You wonder if you are doing it wrong.

[00:32:37] Anna Covert: Or you think, “I can’t do it.” But then it gets easier. Now I love it. If I miss meditation, I want to go be alone and breathe.

[00:32:52] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Yes. At first, one day you feel great, and another day you feel dreadful. That is normal because your brain is stubborn and your ego is resistant. Ego does not like that you are trying to dissolve it.

[00:33:51] Anna Covert: The chemicals matter too. Every thought has a frequency, a feeling, and chemicals in the body. You can become addicted to the feeling of the thing you do not even want.

[00:34:25] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Ego is an addiction. It is your comfort zone. If you try to dissolve ego, the ego worries: who am I if ego is gone? Am I losing my value, purpose, or direction?

Many people give up halfway. Only a small percentage continue all the way.

[00:35:23] Anna Covert: Now that I love meditation and self-reflection, I ask others if they meditate. A lot of people say, “I used to.” Why do you think people give up?

[00:35:56] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Our life pattern is ego-driven. For example, one issue in my life was perfectionism. Whenever someone did something not aligned with my expectations, I became angry, emotional, blunt, and reactive.

You cannot remove every issue overnight. Focus on one painful recurring issue at a time. When that issue appears, bring deep awareness.

Do not blame the external situation. Focus on your thoughts, emotions, and inner dialogue. Notice the chemical discomfort in your body. Take a deep breath without judgment. Observe mindfully.

The first time is painful. The next time, if you bring the same awareness, the magnitude and duration are reduced. Over time, the pattern can be removed.

[00:40:19] Anna Covert: That makes me think of the idea that whatever happens, you say, “It’s good,” because the universe is delivering it for a reason. Even if it is not preferable in the moment, it can still be good.

[00:41:18] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Beautiful. If anything challenging happens, there are two choices. If you do nothing, it strengthens your neural network and next time you become more angry or painful. Or you bring awareness, and the magnitude and duration are reduced.

[00:41:46] Anna Covert: That’s surrendering, like in your prayer.

[00:41:50] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: Yes. You surrender yourself. You believe there is a higher intelligence in the universe guiding life. We need to tap into that higher intelligence.

[00:42:06] Anna Covert: When you work with business leaders and help them find boundless creativity, what steps do you go through with them? How do you help them identify their purpose?

[00:42:22] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: My approach is the same regardless of who I engage with, but leaders come with different agendas. Some are looking for a quick solution because they are busy, logic-driven, and egocentric.

The biggest challenge is listening. Real listening is an extraordinary skill. Most people say they are listening, but they are not. They are constantly reacting, interpreting, and thinking about tomorrow.

Real listening is listening without the listener. It is being in the present moment without interpretation, reaction, or mental dialogue.

Most leaders do not have the capability to listen deeply. That is the most challenging part. They do not listen until their life or business is in deep trouble, or they are already in burnout.

In my case, it took seven years to get out of trouble. I attended courses, read books, met people, and tried to change my identity. I failed because I was chasing a different role instead of my true identity — a passionate scientist.

When you are truly ready and listening without interpretation or projecting your fixed framework, then we can have a serious and exciting conversation. The biggest barrier is readiness. Once you are ready, you have done 99% of the work.

[00:48:00] Anna Covert: It is easy to understand that if you want to get in shape, you go to the gym. But what training are you doing for your mind? That is what we need to prepare for AI changing the world.

[00:49:16] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: If you focus on your state of being, nothing will interrupt your life. Whatever happens, embrace it with curiosity and readiness.

Today, I live with zero fear. I do not think about tomorrow or the past. Every day, I live peacefully. When I need to make a decision, I do not rush. I do not rely only on my analytical mind. I tap into intuitive intelligence. That is where innovation and creativity come from.

[00:50:15] Anna Covert: This has been wonderful. What is next for you? Are you doing a book tour, public speaking, or another book?

[00:50:34] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: I am still full-time running C&C Reservoirs. Running a global technology company in today’s AI era is challenging. It requires commitment and dedication.

Writing the book was not something I planned. It started about 12 months ago because of the wonderful team at Forbes. They encouraged and supported me in turning the idea into reality.

The words that made me commit came from Lindsey at Forbes. She said, “The book is not about yourself. It is about what the world needs.”

That drove me to write the book. I put a lot of effort and money into the book, and I do not expect a return except one reader saying, “Your book changed my life.” That is enough.

If the world needs my time to get the book into more hands, I am happy to do it. For me, running a business and sharing this work are not in conflict.

[00:54:30] Anna Covert: Beautiful. I felt the same way when I received my first email from someone who read my book and saved money on digital marketing. How can people get ahold of you?

[00:55:04] Dr. Shaoqing Sun: LinkedIn is one place. I also have a personal website, drshaoqingsun.com. You can see my story and work there. You can contact me by email or LinkedIn. I am open to deep-level conversations.

Life is challenging. Business is challenging. The world is changing. We need to become healthier at the center of life. If you consciously evolve, you go with the flow of life. If you do not have fear, nothing will happen. Uncertainty and anxiety are all caused by fear.

If you can remove the word fear from your dictionary, your life will change automatically.

[00:56:43] Anna Covert: I agree. And don’t watch the news, people. Pick up a book instead and do some reading.

Thank you so much for joining me today. To all my listeners, please join me next week as I interview another industry expert on topics to help you succeed on and offline.

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